FF85-wk (new one) or FE83 for Quick Summer Project?

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In the month of august i'm gonna build a very quick Bass Reflex enclosure, and i'm now shopping for a driver. I'm gonna follow Fostex reference design for the small BR enclosure published in FE83's datasheet OR the one in the FF85-WK datasheet.

From my trusted ebay shop, i see that the FE83 and the FF85-WK differ in price by only 10 euros. Considering the enclosure will not be anything fancy (no fonken [sadly] nor any other weird setup, just a simple bass reflex) and will sit on a working desktop, which one is the most suited given the price difference is minimal?

Stats for both enclosures are:

FE83En
  • Inner Dimensions: 160x160x270
  • Volume = 6 liters
  • Fb= 90hz
FF85-WK
  • Inner Dimensions: 108x149x223
  • Volume = 3.5 liters
  • Fb = 92hz

I'm obviously not looking for live stage bass here, but i'd like a decently performing speaker for a tight place with roughly 50 cm between the source and the listening ears. Is there a clear winner in a bass-reflex setup between these two in your opinion?

I chose fostex because i'm very happy with a pair of FE126En i built 3 years ago, in the same kind of BR enclosure (obviously bigger) from the datasheet. Now i'm looking for a smaller setup to fit my work place.

I'm not really good at reading speaker stats, but it seems to me the FF85 has overall better parameters. I wonder if they can make up for the much smaller enclosure?

The smaller enclosure would definitely improve the WAF factor of this project, but if the quality i'll get will be blatantly worse i'm willing to go with the FE83 and the bigger enclosure.

I searched a bit on the forum but i didn't find a straight comparison between these two, only between their bigger brothers (FF225-WK and FE206En).

Any feedback would be appreciated.

They will be driven by an Arjen Helder TA2020 Class D MKII Module, which should be more than enough.

Thanks for your time :)
 
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I did a lot of modeling with the FE83En and could get nothing that looked decent with bass gong to less than 150 Hz.

I'd use the FF85.

dave

Interestingly, the Fostex recommended cabinet for the FE83En is a double bass reflex design.This driver might produce some bass in a front firing back loaded horn that looked something like a scaled down Sperrin. This could make for a very cute horn but what's the point? Why not just build the Sperrin?
 
For space reasons i excluded the double-br setup for the FE83.

I'm currently building the box for the FF85 that arrived a couple weeks back. Also in the process of making them "active": Putting in them a TA2020 chinese board, a ChuMoy for headphones and a PCM1704 dac board for a full featured pair of high quality active speakers :)

Are the Sperrin one of those "must make" designs that i sometimes see around here?
 
Oh well, 0318 BST (local time) here & the dreaded insomnia has arrived.

I've yet to figure any real use for the FE83En, other than as a mid-tweet. Trying to extract any real LF from a 3in is a bit of an oxymoron at the best of times, but this one is very much a case of 'forget it.' There are no decent practical reflex alignments, and the theoretical useful horn loaded BW is from 129.52Hz - 210.2Hz.
 
For space reasons i excluded the double-br setup for the FE83.

I'm currently building the box for the FF85 that arrived a couple weeks back. Also in the process of making them "active": Putting in them a TA2020 chinese board, a ChuMoy for headphones and a PCM1704 dac board for a full featured pair of high quality active speakers :)

Are the Sperrin one of those "must make" designs that i sometimes see around here?

I suppose the Sperrin could be one of those "must make" designs but its still very new. This slightly smaller front firing cousin to the Frugal-Horn MK3 has never been built.
 
Who told you that? :confused:

Just to clarify, Sperrin has little in common with FH3, since it's load design and internal configuration are very different, and it has in fact been built.

My mistake. Little information seems to be available on any Sperrin builds thus far and it is true that design of the FH3 is very different. It is true that the FH3 and the Woden Design Sperrin along with the Buschhorn are among the few smaller practical horn designs available. Horn designs tend to require very large cabinets for very large rooms. I guess this makes them more competitors than cousins.
 
Like icebergs, you will only see the tip talked about (so for instance, every FH3 you see posted there are probably another 9 pair in existance)

dave

This is true. On the other hand, there always seems to be several new cabinets designs kicking around that haven't been built. Too many projects and too little time. Speaking of which, the just released Fostex FF85WK, FF105WK, FF125WK, FF165WK, and FF125WK drivers could probably all use new Fonken cabinets. This is not new news of course.
 
Bud has my prototype uFonkenWK boxes, and we just got FF125wk, they are in a set of original Fonken for break-in (and to just see how close they are)

dave



Family visiting from out of town has curtailed extended listening for the past few days, but I managed to get a quick half hour or so session in this afternoon to compare a veteran pair of FE127E to new and probably virgin FF125WK in essentially the same boxes ( well the 125WK enclosures were bamboo, the 127s were BB ply)

Anyway the upshot is that irrespective of how the new models measure or model ( I case it's not already established, I don't particularly give a rip about that part) I quite liked the WKs - I've now heard both the 85s and 125s dropped into enclosures designed for their predecessors, and neither were hurtful
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
Bud has my prototype uFonkenWK boxes

Got news that the uFonkenWK with Bud treated FF85WK will be traveling up to diyFEST with Terry (Terry may not know this yet).

Bud says this is the best Fostex he has heard (like us, Bud's evaluations are based on treated drivers) and right up near the A7 (treated) in terms of magic.

dave
 
Member
Joined 2007
Paid Member
Out of curiosity I ordered a pair of Fostex FF85WK and installed them in the uFonken enclosure(designed for the predecessor FF85K).
They now have some 40 hours of break-in time and my first impressions are that the untreated FF85WK picks up right there where my Enabl'd FF85K ended.
The FF85WK has a stunning mid-range and 3D-focus, plus being very musical. I only hooked them up to an 2A3-SE amp so far. This was the right combination and I felt no urge to swap amps.
I think that the double layer cone and the shaped center cap contribute to the improved non-fatiguing listening experience.

The bass will probably be on par with the older FF85K, when my new drivers are fully broken in and placed in an adapted uFonken enclosure (Dave, give us a note when new uFonken plans will be available).
Although 1.5dB less efficient than the old generation, the subjectively perceived SPL seems to be higher for the same power.
The old Enabl'd-FF85K still has the edge in 3D-focus (over an untreated FF85WK) but is a bit more fatiguing to listen to

Our mourning about the discontinuation of the old FF85k is very likely to be unfounded.

Dave (Planet10): Does the Enabl process on the FF85WK the same magic as it did on the FF85K ?
I'm reluctant to Enabl the new drivers as I think that the new double layer cone and shaped dust cap do provide some of the Enabl effects.


Kind regards,

Yves
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
Dave (Planet10): Does the Enabl process on the FF85WK the same magic as it did on the FF85K ?

Bud thinks so. He REALLY likes this driver.

I've heard so many drivers get better, i expect them to be better treated. I'll know on the WE, the pair (of mine) that Bud has done the 1st pass treatment on will be up for diyFEST.

From what was said, i surmise that special attention needs doing to deal withsurround that is a step backward, and the dome trades the riseing top end of FF85 (above ~15k) for a bit of weirdness.

dave
 
Afraid i won't be able to to listen to the treated drivers, i already received the standard ones and i'm not really in working distance from you wizards :(

But the positive feedback about this tiny cone warms me.

At the moment a stupid doubt is eating at me. I'm using a 20mm thick birch plywood for the box and the front of the speaker is obviously 40mm (20mm on each side) taller to account for the thickness of the top and bottom panels.

The reference design calls for a placement of the cone at 65mm from the top of the box. Should i account for the added length and place the center of the baffle hole at 85mm instead? Same goes for the bass reflex hole.

I'm referring to H1 and H2 in the reference document from the Fostex site.

(Ref: http://fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_components/pdf/ffwk.pdf)

Thanks for your feedback :)
 
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