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Old 29th June 2011, 06:06 PM   #41
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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re: coax vs fullrange - after I added a LC allpass delay network to the woofer on this 1144 Eminence 12", the crossover snapped into focus comparing favorably in coherency with my 206EN plus giving 4dB more sensitivity and much more dynamic capability. fwiw I like (stock) FE205en better overall than 1772 (at its old price - $300+ /driver now is just crazy too much)
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Old 29th June 2011, 06:30 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CZ Eddie View Post
I actually posted here to see if anyone would recommend the Fostex FE206En 8" full range.
FE206 needs a horn. Your placement requirement nixed it pretty quick. FF225wk might work thou. FF165wk if you run out of volume.

If you had a pair of active woofers with decent "HF" extension some of these (ie 166, 206) can be used as mid-tweeters in a sealed box with the woofers used to fill in below where-ever they natuarally fall off.

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Old 29th June 2011, 06:33 PM   #43
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But I'm concerned about having two 4" drivers side by side. Wouldn't that cause some sort of defraction or other audio issue?
If you can fit an 8" you should be able to fit 2 4s vertically.

Also, given your very compromised placement, it is likely not high on the list of issues to worry about.

As long as the listener is far enuff away, they should blend sufficiently to be a non-issue, and given the placement may actually be advantageous.

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Old 29th June 2011, 07:12 PM   #44
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My main speakers are based on the Beyma 8BX coaxial driver. These give deep bass in a 65 litres BR box, can play loud, and have a studio monitor kind of sound (which I like)

Here is the factsheet of the -it seems somewhat updated- 8BX/N (I didn't compare the parameters):
http://profesional.beyma.com/ingles/pdf/8BXN.pdf

Next to music of all kinds (sometimes pretty loud) it is very convincing for AV use.

In smaller boxes it will work just as well with less bass of course (Klang & Ton once published a compact studio monitor design with it), if you're going to pair it with a big sub this may be interesting as well.

I was lucky enough that a professional designer who planned to sell a box with it experimented with around 20 filters to get the tonality just right, and he was so kind to share this schematic with me. It would have been very difficult for me to replicate his success, but even so I think you can get decent results with a more classic filter as well.

Update: I just notice this interesting new model:
http://profesional.beyma.com/ingles/pdf/8CX300Nd.pdf
Remarkably low distortion. Tempting, very tempting ! Must model in WinISD...

Last edited by talaerts; 29th June 2011 at 07:19 PM.
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Old 29th June 2011, 07:42 PM   #45
chops is offline chops  United States
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Originally Posted by CZ Eddie View Post
The sub will be an MFW-15 clone and since also used for home theater, will also often be run +10db.
You do know what I said about the AV123 15" driver, right?

It wouldn't be my first choice in your particular situation.


And yes, that TB driver you linked to would be a great alternative. At least I think it would be.
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Old 30th June 2011, 12:46 PM   #46
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You do know what I said about the AV123 15" driver, right?

It wouldn't be my first choice in your particular situation.
Yes and no. It's not the same driver, but it is based on it and measures similar. The AV123 driver has some slight differences. One of which is supposedly less x-max. But it's also only $97 shipped BNIB. There are a LOT of them still available from GR research and Erich at AVS still has a couple left.

It was my first choice because I've always wanted to build one, so I'll finally get to listen to it. And for $170 including driver & amplifier (+ wood), it's a good deal.
Sealed subs may have a better sound, but the MFW-15 models the most SPL from 20-120hz and due to location of the sub not getting any corner boundry gain, I want every last SPL possible.
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Old 30th June 2011, 12:47 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
If you can fit an 8" you should be able to fit 2 4s vertically.

Also, given your very compromised placement, it is likely not high on the list of issues to worry about.

As long as the listener is far enuff away, they should blend sufficiently to be a non-issue, and given the placement may actually be advantageous.

dave
Would the two 4's on each side require a filter?
Yes, the two 4's will fit vertically mounted.
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Old 30th June 2011, 12:51 PM   #48
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The reason I want off-axis performance is because the entertainment center is set off to the left of the room, so people will be sitting directly in front of it as well as off to the right.
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Old 30th June 2011, 01:34 PM   #49
chops is offline chops  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CZ Eddie View Post
Yes and no. It's not the same driver, but it is based on it and measures similar. The AV123 driver has some slight differences. One of which is supposedly less x-max. But it's also only $97 shipped BNIB. There are a LOT of them still available from GR research and Erich at AVS still has a couple left.

It was my first choice because I've always wanted to build one, so I'll finally get to listen to it. And for $170 including driver & amplifier (+ wood), it's a good deal.
Sealed subs may have a better sound, but the MFW-15 models the most SPL from 20-120hz and due to location of the sub not getting any corner boundry gain, I want every last SPL possible.
Same cone with matching numbers, same basket with matching numbers, same magnet, same surround, same spider, same VC, etc, etc, etc, and measures identical to each other. a.k.a. - Same driver...

And quite frankly, I wouldn't trust anything AV123 (and probably GR Research) publishes after hearing about all the crap the owner Mark did through the years, but that's just me. If I knew back then what I know now about that company, I would have never bought their X-Statik speakers and would have gone elsewhere with my money.

And if in fact it has less x-max, even more of a reason to go with the genuine Dayton driver.


Also, sealed isn't "better" than ported. People just say that because a lot of folks don't know how to properly design, build and tune a ported enclosure. Even if you get remotely close to the right airspace for a sealed enclosure, they are hard to "eff" up.

But hey, it's your time, money and project...
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Old 30th June 2011, 04:40 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by CZ Eddie View Post
The reason I want off-axis performance is because the entertainment center is set off to the left of the room, so people will be sitting directly in front of it as well as off to the right.
CZ:
the design constraints are getting even more interesting - dare I suggest that in-walls might be considered as part of the solution to the dispersion factor of the calculus

Charles: whatever else can be said about sealed bass enclosures - they certainly make for easy solutions to tricky installations such as CZ's project , in which I'd suspect getting the bass "right" will be the least of the problems
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