Alpair10.2 - dissapointing result

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Here they are: two different drivers, two different enclosures and absolutely different sound. My first build - MarKen with Alpair7, one month later - BR with Alpair10 G2 (BR enclosure plan I take from: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/twin...lf-cabinet-alpair-10-gen-2-a.html#post2516056.). Why I decide to try Alpair10? I want a little bit more bass and a bit more sound than I get from Alpair7. And the result is....I am dissapointed. After 2 week of listening and comparison here is my oppinion: bass - tight and precise on A7 and restrained un A10 - generally speaking there is no bass from A10. Mids: about equal in quality for both drivers. High's: near equal in quality but there is more high's from A7, and also more sibilances on voices (one of the reason why I decided to try A10). Soundstage: much better and wider and deeper on A7. Focus: A7 is clear winner. Atmoshere; A7 again win's. The music: jazz, vocal, classic, classical rock, mainly natural instruments. So, from my experience, Alpair7 is another league driver comparing with Alpair10 (IMHO). Alpair7 is really very good driver - you forgot about the soud - you just listen the music. Where is my fault? I think - the enclosure for A10. The original enclosure plan suppose the port is 40mm*1.5mm*200mm (tuning frequency is about 73 Hz - from WinISD and also from my Berihger RTA). I rearrange port tuning frequency to 52 Hz (it was hard with closed back box). The result - better bass in quantity, but not in quality. Bass section still not well integrated with mids and high's section. May be somebody can help me with advice about what else can I do with this BR box to improve the overall sound quality? Thank you in advance, sorry for my English
Newbie in fullrange - Andrej.
 

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They should sound much more alike than different. 10.2 should have more beaming requiring toe in, and from what i have heard from others, does not match A7 in sound-stage. I can completely seal the mouth on my Pensil 10.2, and it still has good bass. Muddy or bloomy bass suggest enclosure/dampening issues or as Chris suggested, wiring issues.
 
Thank you guis for replies. Yes, drivers were gently breaking in before installed in place for about 100 hours. The polarity is correct - checked few times. Enclosures are internally lined with 12mm wool felt (of course exept reflex opening), so, the bass is not muddy - just like it is coming out from another, small driver. Definitely need a subwoofer. I am not a fun of fat, overhelming bass, 50 Hz at -3 dB is fine for the type of music I usually listen. Prefer fast and correct bass note. But here is not the case. Thank you for advice, cheers,
 
I have very little time at present, but unless I've made a complete horlicks of something somewhere (possible, not at my best today) that Twin Audio cabinet is spectacularly mistuned for the A10.2. I'd be expecting something like a ~8.5dB peak around 90Hz give or take -might get a little less due to the high aspect ratio, but nothing like sufficient to bring the response into line.
 
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Thank you guis for replies. Yes, drivers were gently breaking in before installed in place for about 100 hours. The polarity is correct - checked few times. Enclosures are internally lined with 12mm wool felt (of course exept reflex opening), so, the bass is not muddy - just like it is coming out from another, small driver. Definitely need a subwoofer. I am not a fun of fat, overhelming bass, 50 Hz at -3 dB is fine for the type of music I usually listen. Prefer fast and correct bass note. But here is not the case. Thank you for advice, cheers,

Hi Andrej,
Did you get this box design from Tony Wong's web-site or his section on the forum? It looks familiar. If so, you're using a design that's deliberately bass limited for use in Japan and Asia as small OEM build, not for Diy project builds. I'll check Tony's thread and delete the drawing. It wasn't mean for public circulation so I'll be having strong words with Tony:cop:
Thx
Mark.
 
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Hello Mark, thank you for reply. Yes, I take enclosure plan from: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/twin...lf-cabinet-alpair-10-gen-2-a.html#post2516056.
Now I understand that it was just a joke!!

It was stupid for me not to check the box tuning frequency before I start play with saw and hummer . I just was very much surprised with Alpair7 sound quality (really very good) and lost my mind with bookshelf BR for Alpair 10.2.

It was too good to be true. In any case, I already has a pair of good toes - Alpair7 in MarKen. And may be I just put A10.2 in small closed box and add the sub's which I already has. Thank you, cheers, Andrej.
 
Hi Andrej,
I've found the thread on Tony's section, deleted the box drawing and corrected the introduction. Sorry this happened.

One thing is certain, the Alp10 Gen.2 can deliver excellent low range performance. If anything, the feedback is it could do with a little less LF output. But like all drivers, the box design will have to be optimised for low range output if that is part of the build project's expected performance.

Thanks

Mark.
 
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Andrej: If you've already built the Mar-Ken cabinets for the A7, I doubt you'll find the
Mar-Ken10 bass shy.
The 10.2 driver in these cabs produce tight tuneful bass, and go out way beyond the limits of my hearing.
One doesn't get the impression they're missing anything, YMMV, as always.
good Luck
don
IMG_1700.jpg
(someday I'll veneer them, I knew this would happen!)
 
Don!! Very nice looking box. Before I start building the BR enclosure for A10.2, I trying to calculate onken type box for A10.2, but, it is not for newbie - it is for peoples who understand something in speaker building. Because I can't find the onken type plan for A10.2, I choose the wrong way - BR. Thank you, Don - it is really nice compartment for A10.2. And I am sure the sound is equal. May be I want too much.., but, did you calculate this onken by yourself and have a plans? Sorry if anything. Andrej.
 
No problem, Mark. It was completely my fault, and I am sure the A10.2 is a great driver if in a proper enclosure. And I will build the proper enclosure for A10.2 - this driver deserve it. Thank you Mark, Best Regards, Andrej

Hi Andrej,
Its kind of you. I feel embarrassed that this situation happened. Tony's a good guy, means well but he's made a mistake. I've helped him out with some simple designs meant mainly for Asian and mainstream listening tastes, but not meant for Diy needs.

One thing goes to show, that listening tastes vary much. The box you built is quite popular in our region.

If you're looking for some big bass, worth considering the Pencil 10.2. Scott did a nice job with this concept. Pencil's are easy build and floor space needed is not much more than bookshelf speakers on stands. Its easy to tune by adjusting the amount of damping material inside the box. Dave and other Diy guys might also give you some other box design suggestions.

Many thanks again for your understanding and support.

Mark.
 
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frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
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Except for the bass, which has been explained, and the delta between the 2 is find that the A7 does indeed outdo A10.2 in imaging & in mid-top performance. Just what you would expect from a smaller driver in the same family.

Too get a feel for the differences with each driver on more-or-less equal footing, try the A10.2 in CGR Mar-Ken10.2 (oopa, i see that idea was vetoed). But based on the drawing i saw CGR-MK10.2 is smaller than Tony's cabinet. I could morph it into a more WAF friendly aspect.

dave
 
Thanks for reply Dave. May be the total volume of CGR Mar-Ken 10.2 is less than BR box, but it looks larger because of this wide front panel and it is not fits very well with the speaker stands I have. But, may be time passes and I'll change my mind about CGR. WBR, Andrej
 
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