Having read quite a bit, I still have some questions about a horn in my room. The listening room is rectangular, 16' x 30'. The speakers will have to be placed on the long wall, in the middle. This was fine with my B&Ws, however, I am moving to two tube amps (one PP 2A3, 14W and one SE 300B, 7W). I want to do a full range driver. I at one time had audio nirvanas, which were nice, but not a horn. They were 8s.
I am thinking about the Fostex 6.5" (or 8"?), or possible the MarkAudio. I do have a subwoofer for my room (18" JBL 2245H, 8 cubic foot cab, low power amp, variable crossover, I need the big woofer for the room, it does not move much, but it is plenty), but the real question (I think) is would a horn be ok in here? I though you needed a good deal of room for the horn to operate well (from the horn to the listener). After you pull them away from the back wall, there is only about 12' or so between them and the listener. Is that acceptable?
Next question, would the Fostex be ok in here? The 6.5" or the 8"?
Finally, if the fostex is ok, why does no one build the recommended enclosure form Fostex? I note that everyone builds a bib (BTW: that guys site is down and you can not download the calculator), or some other type of back loaded horn... is the Fostex design terrible?
Any insight appreciated. Thanks.
I am thinking about the Fostex 6.5" (or 8"?), or possible the MarkAudio. I do have a subwoofer for my room (18" JBL 2245H, 8 cubic foot cab, low power amp, variable crossover, I need the big woofer for the room, it does not move much, but it is plenty), but the real question (I think) is would a horn be ok in here? I though you needed a good deal of room for the horn to operate well (from the horn to the listener). After you pull them away from the back wall, there is only about 12' or so between them and the listener. Is that acceptable?
Next question, would the Fostex be ok in here? The 6.5" or the 8"?
Finally, if the fostex is ok, why does no one build the recommended enclosure form Fostex? I note that everyone builds a bib (BTW: that guys site is down and you can not download the calculator), or some other type of back loaded horn... is the Fostex design terrible?
Any insight appreciated. Thanks.
BiB with Fostex FE166en is sweet though - I have one. 12' is more than enough for good listening. But beware, BiB with FE166en will be pretty big - around 54" x 11" x 15" if I remember correctly. Other double mouth horn designs will be quite large too. Good thing about the BiB is that build is very simple.
The "Victor" is rather interesting double mouthed BLH in development for the 6.5" fostex driver however i can't say when it'll happen, haven't heard back from Scott L on it. Woden Design | Fostex
There has been talk of a 6.5" driver Frugal horn, again don't know if and when it'll happen. Also cant say if the design will be flexible enough to work with both the 6.5" Fostex and Mark Audio A12.
Speaking of which, Mark F. (MA), is looking into doing a paper cone A12.3.
I already have a 6.5" Fostex and plan on getting a MA A12.3 too. My preferred amp for my primary system is my 3.5watt Fi 2A3.
Full range 6"-6.5" is a good compromise size-wise. I don't think you can go wrong with either but suspect the whizzerless MA driver will have the edge on the FE166.
There has been talk of a 6.5" driver Frugal horn, again don't know if and when it'll happen. Also cant say if the design will be flexible enough to work with both the 6.5" Fostex and Mark Audio A12.
Speaking of which, Mark F. (MA), is looking into doing a paper cone A12.3.
I already have a 6.5" Fostex and plan on getting a MA A12.3 too. My preferred amp for my primary system is my 3.5watt Fi 2A3.
Full range 6"-6.5" is a good compromise size-wise. I don't think you can go wrong with either but suspect the whizzerless MA driver will have the edge on the FE166.
Bernie will have his down here soon. He has FE166eSR, i am preparing FE166eN^2 so we can listen to both.
Some false starts on that one. It may well end up being something completely different if it can get sorted. FH3 is turning out to be something real special in its versatility.
dave
I was under the impression that 12' was too short for a double mouth horn to integrate? BIBs could be thrown together out of chipboard easily to see if they work for you since you don't have corners to put them in. Will the FE166En work in an AustinA166? For 8" you could go with a Half Chang. Be careful with the Half Chang though. Mine attacked me yesterday. It jumped out of my arms and stomped on my bare toes. I now regret filling the area behind the mouth with sand.
Hrm, good information. I have yet to find actual dimensions/drawings of any of the mentioned cabinets for this driver. I see a lot of talk about the BIB, but again, the software (spreadsheet) is unavailable. The Victor is "under development" and no drawings are given.
I can not steam bend (or bend) birch for Rons A166 project. The Hiro (Sachiko) from this page (The Spawn Family of Double Horns) has plans... I know BLH are large, but at 6' tall I am starting to get into the "wife won't have that one" territory...
Perhaps I am being a bit too whiny, but I suppose I am looking for something like the Frugel for a 6.5" Fostex and not the 4".
It would almost be worth it to buy them from this guy: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/planet-10-hifi/184088-frugel-horn-mk3-flat-paks.html
If they were for a bit larger driver. I don't think the 4" will do well in my room size...
I can not steam bend (or bend) birch for Rons A166 project. The Hiro (Sachiko) from this page (The Spawn Family of Double Horns) has plans... I know BLH are large, but at 6' tall I am starting to get into the "wife won't have that one" territory...
Perhaps I am being a bit too whiny, but I suppose I am looking for something like the Frugel for a 6.5" Fostex and not the 4".
It would almost be worth it to buy them from this guy: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/planet-10-hifi/184088-frugel-horn-mk3-flat-paks.html
If they were for a bit larger driver. I don't think the 4" will do well in my room size...
Since the OP has a subwoofer, in his place I would probably make compact speaker cabinets for the fullrange units, not big horns.
For alternatives in that size, also check out the Tang Band W6-1916:
http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1230_04/w6-1916.htm
I have not heard any of these high end TBs but they sure are nicely made.
Specifically for the use with a subwoofer, this Visaton B200-based design seems interesting as well:
Visaton - Lautsprecher und Zubehör, Loudspeakers and Accessories
For alternatives in that size, also check out the Tang Band W6-1916:
http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1230_04/w6-1916.htm
I have not heard any of these high end TBs but they sure are nicely made.
Specifically for the use with a subwoofer, this Visaton B200-based design seems interesting as well:
Visaton - Lautsprecher und Zubehör, Loudspeakers and Accessories
Victor will prob look like a thinner version of the Vulcan (8" driver). May be somewhat smaller because of the curved back but still on the large side.
Ron's A166 has been used with 168EZ and 166EsR by reducing the compression chamber volume. When i asked Ron C about the A166/FE166EsR he gave me the reduced size of the compression chamber but also told me that the Austin 166 wasn't designed to be used with that driver so not optimum. The plans for the A166 where lost and no clear plan is available so you have to wing it based on what is on the Frugal horn site. Someone here began posting a revision for use with the 166EsR and never continued to the end, no idea if he ever built them. There was a "Layertone" A166/ stacked CNC'ed X sections which has curved folds and i think the presumed abandoned (EsR), drawings showed a curved folds option. You don't have to use them, in fact not doing so will prob be better by restricting high fq's from making their way back up the horn path (or something like that).
How about the Thirlmere bipole http://homepage.mac.com/planet10/CSS/EL70/Lake-District-maps-080909.pdf using 2 el70s per cab? You could side mount one driver like the coniston^2 since rear firing would not work for you. I think that would satisfy the room and the wife. Another idea would be 2 fh3s per side. Turn one upside down and stack it on top of the other or just incorporate them into one cabinet but integration may be a problem.
Until a build of Victor or Vulcan is done and deemed a success, it will not be released.
A166 is built with all standard flat panels. (except for the one pair of translam that layertone did)
Victor & Vulcan are no smaller
Perhaps I am being a bit too whiny, but I suppose I am looking for something like the Frugel for a 6.5" Fostex and not the 4".
The small drivers give up efficiency, ultimate dynamics & levels, and bass slam, to give better performance everywhere else. For the difference in cost, one could add a couple of powered stealth woofers in a pair of deflectors and cover off the last 2 of those points as well as make gains in the things they already do better.
And that last paragraph is based on my personal experience in my "not all that small" listening space.
dave
Just got my W5-1611. Quite nicely built althou not up to the standards set by the MA Alpairs (not as expensive either thou). These, the Fostex FE138eSR will soon be tried in Frugel-Horn Mk3, if they work we'll "fit" a pair of Alpair10 to see how they do.
dave
Edit: Scott has done up a new (both as in newly designed and in that it brings something novel), for the W5-1611, and the same TB Deckert uses in his DNA BVR. Called Mallard (after Ducky in NCIS, the same actor that played Illya Kuryakin in Man from U.N.C.L.E)
I have a 1st pass sketch of the integrated one somewhere. You could also follow Ed's lead and siamese 4 of them.
dave
sand should also be included the lower void for stability - filling at centerline of double mouth designs without lower ballast or outrigger base would be asking for trouble
Hrm, I was really thinking about it. I emailed you at the address on your site, but it did not work. I will try again.
Valiant / Maeshowe (depending on selected driver, the air cavity would need to be changed) - probably better controlled /extended bass than FH3^2
I've spent a bit of time with FE126En in these, and they're now residing casa Dlugos with (I believe) EL70s - have no trouble in a quite large space
If you found an address that didn't work, i'd like to find it and squash it. Any of the 3 sites in my sig will have my email, and i can be mailed thru the forum.
dave
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