Fostex FE166, MarkAduio Alpair12 or other?

triode3 · 3rd June 2011, 02:21 AM

Having read quite a bit, I still have some questions about a horn in my room. The listening room is rectangular, 16' x 30'. The speakers will have to be placed on the long wall, in the middle. This was fine with my B&Ws, however, I am moving to two tube amps (one PP 2A3, 14W and one SE 300B, 7W). I want to do a full range driver. I at one time had audio nirvanas, which were nice, but not a horn. They were 8s.

I am thinking about the Fostex 6.5" (or 8"?), or possible the MarkAudio. I do have a subwoofer for my room (18" JBL 2245H, 8 cubic foot cab, low power amp, variable crossover, I need the big woofer for the room, it does not move much, but it is plenty), but the real question (I think) is would a horn be ok in here? I though you needed a good deal of room for the horn to operate well (from the horn to the listener). After you pull them away from the back wall, there is only about 12' or so between them and the listener. Is that acceptable?

Next question, would the Fostex be ok in here? The 6.5" or the 8"?

Finally, if the fostex is ok, why does no one build the recommended enclosure form Fostex? I note that everyone builds a bib (BTW: that guys site is down and you can not download the calculator), or some other type of back loaded horn... is the Fostex design terrible?

Any insight appreciated. Thanks.

planet10 · 3rd June 2011, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triode3

Finally, if the fostex is ok, why does no one build the recommended enclosure form Fostex?

Because it is not very good.

dave

zman01 · 3rd June 2011, 03:09 AM

BiB with Fostex FE166en is sweet though - I have one. 12' is more than enough for good listening. But beware, BiB with FE166en will be pretty big - around 54" x 11" x 15" if I remember correctly. Other double mouth horn designs will be quite large too. Good thing about the BiB is that build is very simple.

mp9 · 3rd June 2011, 03:54 AM

The "Victor" is rather interesting double mouthed BLH in development for the 6.5" fostex driver however i can't say when it'll happen, haven't heard back from Scott L on it. Woden Design | Fostex
There has been talk of a 6.5" driver Frugal horn, again don't know if and when it'll happen. Also cant say if the design will be flexible enough to work with both the 6.5" Fostex and Mark Audio A12.
Speaking of which, Mark F. (MA), is looking into doing a paper cone A12.3.
I already have a 6.5" Fostex and plan on getting a MA A12.3 too. My preferred amp for my primary system is my 3.5watt Fi 2A3.
Full range 6"-6.5" is a good compromise size-wise. I don't think you can go wrong with either but suspect the whizzerless MA driver will have the edge on the FE166.

planet10 · 3rd June 2011, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mp9

The "Victor" is rather interesting double mouthed BLH in development for the 6.5" fostex driver however i can't say when it'll happen, haven't heard back from Scott L on it. Woden Design | Fostex

Bernie will have his down here soon. He has FE166eSR, i am preparing FE166eN^2 so we can listen to both.

Quote:

There has been talk of a 6.5" driver Frugal horn, again don't know if and when it'll happen.

Some false starts on that one. It may well end up being something completely different if it can get sorted. FH3 is turning out to be something real special in its versatility.

dave

jimbro · 3rd June 2011, 01:01 PM

I was under the impression that 12' was too short for a double mouth horn to integrate? BIBs could be thrown together out of chipboard easily to see if they work for you since you don't have corners to put them in. Will the FE166En work in an AustinA166? For 8" you could go with a Half Chang. Be careful with the Half Chang though. Mine attacked me yesterday. It jumped out of my arms and stomped on my bare toes. I now regret filling the area behind the mouth with sand.

triode3 · 3rd June 2011, 01:05 PM

Hrm, good information. I have yet to find actual dimensions/drawings of any of the mentioned cabinets for this driver. I see a lot of talk about the BIB, but again, the software (spreadsheet) is unavailable. The Victor is "under development" and no drawings are given.

I can not steam bend (or bend) birch for Rons A166 project. The Hiro (Sachiko) from this page (The Spawn Family of Double Horns) has plans... I know BLH are large, but at 6' tall I am starting to get into the "wife won't have that one" territory...

Perhaps I am being a bit too whiny, but I suppose I am looking for something like the Frugel for a 6.5" Fostex and not the 4".

It would almost be worth it to buy them from this guy: Frugel-Horn Mk3 flat-paks
If they were for a bit larger driver. I don't think the 4" will do well in my room size...

talaerts · 3rd June 2011, 01:30 PM

Since the OP has a subwoofer, in his place I would probably make compact speaker cabinets for the fullrange units, not big horns.

For alternatives in that size, also check out the Tang Band W6-1916:
http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1230_04/w6-1916.htm
I have not heard any of these high end TBs but they sure are nicely made.

Specifically for the use with a subwoofer, this Visaton B200-based design seems interesting as well:
Visaton - Lautsprecher und Zubehör, Loudspeakers and Accessories

mp9 · 3rd June 2011, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triode3

The Victor is "under development" and no drawings are given.

I can not steam bend (or bend) birch for Rons A166 project. The Hiro (Sachiko) from this page (The Spawn Family of Double Horns) has plans... I know BLH are large, but at 6' tall I am starting to get into the "wife won't have that one" territory...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbro

Will the FE166En work in an AustinA166?

Victor will prob look like a thinner version of the Vulcan (8" driver). May be somewhat smaller because of the curved back but still on the large side.

Ron's A166 has been used with 168EZ and 166EsR by reducing the compression chamber volume. When i asked Ron C about the A166/FE166EsR he gave me the reduced size of the compression chamber but also told me that the Austin 166 wasn't designed to be used with that driver so not optimum. The plans for the A166 where lost and no clear plan is available so you have to wing it based on what is on the Frugal horn site. Someone here began posting a revision for use with the 166EsR and never continued to the end, no idea if he ever built them. There was a "Layertone" A166/ stacked CNC'ed X sections which has curved folds and i think the presumed abandoned (EsR), drawings showed a curved folds option. You don't have to use them, in fact not doing so will prob be better by restricting high fq's from making their way back up the horn path (or something like that).

jimbro · 3rd June 2011, 07:01 PM

How about the Thirlmere bipole http://homepage.mac.com/planet10/CSS...aps-080909.pdf using 2 el70s per cab? You could side mount one driver like the coniston^2 since rear firing would not work for you. I think that would satisfy the room and the wife. Another idea would be 2 fh3s per side. Turn one upside down and stack it on top of the other or just incorporate them into one cabinet but integration may be a problem.

3rd June 2011, 02:21 AM	#1
triode3 diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2010	Fostex FE166, MarkAduio Alpair12 or other? Having read quite a bit, I still have some questions about a horn in my room. The listening room is rectangular, 16' x 30'. The speakers will have to be placed on the long wall, in the middle. This was fine with my B&Ws, however, I am moving to two tube amps (one PP 2A3, 14W and one SE 300B, 7W). I want to do a full range driver. I at one time had audio nirvanas, which were nice, but not a horn. They were 8s. I am thinking about the Fostex 6.5" (or 8"?), or possible the MarkAudio. I do have a subwoofer for my room (18" JBL 2245H, 8 cubic foot cab, low power amp, variable crossover, I need the big woofer for the room, it does not move much, but it is plenty), but the real question (I think) is would a horn be ok in here? I though you needed a good deal of room for the horn to operate well (from the horn to the listener). After you pull them away from the back wall, there is only about 12' or so between them and the listener. Is that acceptable? Next question, would the Fostex be ok in here? The 6.5" or the 8"? Finally, if the fostex is ok, why does no one build the recommended enclosure form Fostex? I note that everyone builds a bib (BTW: that guys site is down and you can not download the calculator), or some other type of back loaded horn... is the Fostex design terrible? Any insight appreciated. Thanks.

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3rd June 2011, 03:09 AM	#3
zman01 diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Dhaka	BiB with Fostex FE166en is sweet though - I have one. 12' is more than enough for good listening. But beware, BiB with FE166en will be pretty big - around 54" x 11" x 15" if I remember correctly. Other double mouth horn designs will be quite large too. Good thing about the BiB is that build is very simple.

3rd June 2011, 03:54 AM	#4
mp9 diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2006	The "Victor" is rather interesting double mouthed BLH in development for the 6.5" fostex driver however i can't say when it'll happen, haven't heard back from Scott L on it. Woden Design \| Fostex There has been talk of a 6.5" driver Frugal horn, again don't know if and when it'll happen. Also cant say if the design will be flexible enough to work with both the 6.5" Fostex and Mark Audio A12. Speaking of which, Mark F. (MA), is looking into doing a paper cone A12.3. I already have a 6.5" Fostex and plan on getting a MA A12.3 too. My preferred amp for my primary system is my 3.5watt Fi 2A3. Full range 6"-6.5" is a good compromise size-wise. I don't think you can go wrong with either but suspect the whizzerless MA driver will have the edge on the FE166.

3rd June 2011, 01:01 PM	#6
jimbro diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: somewhere in Texas	I was under the impression that 12' was too short for a double mouth horn to integrate? BIBs could be thrown together out of chipboard easily to see if they work for you since you don't have corners to put them in. Will the FE166En work in an AustinA166? For 8" you could go with a Half Chang. Be careful with the Half Chang though. Mine attacked me yesterday. It jumped out of my arms and stomped on my bare toes. I now regret filling the area behind the mouth with sand.

3rd June 2011, 01:05 PM	#7
triode3 diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2010	Hrm, good information. I have yet to find actual dimensions/drawings of any of the mentioned cabinets for this driver. I see a lot of talk about the BIB, but again, the software (spreadsheet) is unavailable. The Victor is "under development" and no drawings are given. I can not steam bend (or bend) birch for Rons A166 project. The Hiro (Sachiko) from this page (The Spawn Family of Double Horns) has plans... I know BLH are large, but at 6' tall I am starting to get into the "wife won't have that one" territory... Perhaps I am being a bit too whiny, but I suppose I am looking for something like the Frugel for a 6.5" Fostex and not the 4". It would almost be worth it to buy them from this guy: Frugel-Horn Mk3 flat-paks If they were for a bit larger driver. I don't think the 4" will do well in my room size...

3rd June 2011, 01:30 PM	#8
talaerts diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2005	Since the OP has a subwoofer, in his place I would probably make compact speaker cabinets for the fullrange units, not big horns. For alternatives in that size, also check out the Tang Band W6-1916: http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1230_04/w6-1916.htm I have not heard any of these high end TBs but they sure are nicely made. Specifically for the use with a subwoofer, this Visaton B200-based design seems interesting as well: Visaton - Lautsprecher und Zubehör, Loudspeakers and Accessories

3rd June 2011, 07:01 PM	#10
jimbro diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: somewhere in Texas	How about the Thirlmere bipole http://homepage.mac.com/planet10/CSS...aps-080909.pdf using 2 el70s per cab? You could side mount one driver like the coniston^2 since rear firing would not work for you. I think that would satisfy the room and the wife. Another idea would be 2 fh3s per side. Turn one upside down and stack it on top of the other or just incorporate them into one cabinet but integration may be a problem.

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