Absolutely agree. FRs are not only limited in extension, they are also colored, partly for heavily using break up modes to produce their trebble, and partly for using coloring cabinets to get some more bass.
They sound COHERENT because are xover free, but are not ACURATE, and timbre can certainly not be their stronger point, though in some cases, and with the right program, and in the right mood, they can sound euphonics, which does not mean NEUTRAL.
Last edited:
Alpair 10.2 & 12 in the right box will do 45-20k. A7 can be made to reach 45 but it is a push... it does better mid thru top.
Some of the TBs look like they are getting there too.
dave
Single driver designs are the only ones to use "coloring cabinets to get some more bass"?
Expect some push back on the statement re "timbral weakness"
Would there be consensus that regardless of their theoretical or objectively measurable deficiencies (gross distortions at extremes of frequency or SPL, deviations from "linear response" etc ) that FR systems "euphonics" don't necessary disqualify them from worthy listening?
The same question could be posited in regards to many SET amps, including the Neiro.
Andy - if you haven't already had the opportunity, do yourself a favor and track down such a system locally for verification of your own aesthetic - in the end it's your ears.
To get balanced highs over 3k stay on the right listening axis and dont move: sweet spot is very spot.... Keep also in the near field. Despite their rising response on axis those drivers sound muddy in the top when listened to from say 3-4m.. Compromises...
Yeah, except the ones you sell of course ...
You surely do not miss a single opportunity to take good care of the business and it's ok, but for me this is only a hobby...
And btw, it do not mean the ones you sell are worse than others, only that with a good tweeter and the right xover would certainly become a more civilized animal...
Enjoyable stuff for sure, but there are so many different things to discover and enjoy, and life is so short, that why always stick to the same old things and same old stories...
Full range drivers for me excell in the computer speaker catagory. Multi driver setups don't work well at less than 1m listening distance and reflections can be a nightmare at the crossover point.
However I find the practice of running full range drivers with no crossover components strange as they all need some EQ for baffle step and correction of the high frequancies.
The mark audio drivers have very well controlled cone breakup for metal cones and seem to be a big step forward over previous full range designs.
Full range drivers with radiating surface > 3" are too beamy for me nesesitating the usage of subs bellow 100Hz but this is how it should be done in multi way anyway to smooth room nodes.
There is also cost to consider, in the uk inductors are more expensive than drivers quite often!
However I find the practice of running full range drivers with no crossover components strange as they all need some EQ for baffle step and correction of the high frequancies.
The mark audio drivers have very well controlled cone breakup for metal cones and seem to be a big step forward over previous full range designs.
Full range drivers with radiating surface > 3" are too beamy for me nesesitating the usage of subs bellow 100Hz but this is how it should be done in multi way anyway to smooth room nodes.
There is also cost to consider, in the uk inductors are more expensive than drivers quite often!
GDO, you clearly have a bias. No one here will deny that FR drivers may be limited in their ability to reproduce certain music, but for listening to Jazz and instrument oriented music, i don't think they can be beat. I have to exclude orchestral music, but show me a speaker that can reproduce that music with any realistic accuracy. The last statement is made assuming you have heard an orchestra or symphony in person in a proper venue. I have the A10.2's and can say without any doubt that they do many things in an excellent way and would be difficult to beat without spending a great deal of money. FWIW, i have listened to an active Linn Klimax system that will blow your doors off in every category, you need only drop 100G in the bucket to enjoy! My MA drivers and cabinet set me back about 300-350 and went 75-80% of the way, not bad in my opinion. Accept that you like a certain style of muscial reproduction and quit dogging others for their preferences.
To get balanced highs over 3k stay on the right listening axis and dont move: sweet spot is very spot.... Keep also in the near field. Despite their rising response on axis those drivers sound muddy in the top when listened to from say 3-4m.. Compromises...
You aren't describing the FRs i have here.
Every speaker is a compromise. An XO is a big compromise. One in the 1.5 to 3.5 kHz is a huge one (ie where ear is most sensitive)
Which were best? All of them stock?
dave
I found them kinda constipated. ChrisB used to be a Linnie. I only owned LP12s (at least a dozen)
dave
Yeah, except the ones you sell of course ...
You surely do not miss a single opportunity to take good care of the business and it's ok, but for me this is only a hobby...
I take good drivers and make them better. No secret what i do. All the information is out there for the hobbiest to do what i do themselves (and i contributed much of it). The only thing i can't share is the experience i've gained from doing a zillion drivers.
dave
To really enjoy a Linn system, you have to have every component, They make them to work as a whole unit. I have yet to hear anything that compares to a full Linn system that is active. Not that i have heard everything. Hearing a fully active Linn system at Audio Advice in Raleigh, NC created the audio addiction in me. I am not saying that it can't be different, but it can't be better, just different. The point I was making was the amount of money needed to get to that point. You have to discount everything when it comes to DIY, but I challenge anybody to replicate the sound I heard from that system. I say this being utterly enamored with the MA 10.2 and what it can do, and looking forward to an A7 with a helper woofer. I believe in the quality of music coming from them enough to try to tailor my amps to the driver and not the other way around. They definitely have a sweet spot as GDO said, but isn't that what we are all trying to hit.
I guess this proves what is being said. You think Mint Chocolate Chip is best, I like orange sherbert.
I happily defer to you and your experience, which far exceeds my own. You got to love the DIY community!
Last edited:
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.