How good must full-rangers get to replace 2-ways?

[andyjevans]

Where are we currently with perfecting full-rangers?

Which units are at the cutting edge of what can be achieved?

Given that nobody would use crossovers if they could be avoided, how close are we to solving the issues of designing a full-ranger that can out-perform typical domestic 2-way speakers?

Andy

[chris661]

"Nobody would use crossovers..."
What constitues a crossover?

[GDO]

Originally Posted by andyjevans

Where are we currently with perfecting full-rangers?

Which units are at the cutting edge of what can be achieved?

Given that nobody would use crossovers if they could be avoided, how close are we to solving the issues of designing a full-ranger that can out-perform typical domestic 2-way speakers?

Andy

Not far enough to outperform any serious 2 way design , i am afraid.

Anyway i find that Jordan widebanders (maybe full range is a bit overpromising...) are good candidates and matches with high end ribbon or dome tweeters.

Even the ultra full range freaks with their Feastrex stuff seem to go 2 ways too...

And btw, wide band seems to be a clear trend in the latest state of the art designs by midwoofer specialists ( Morel Supreme, Scanspeak Illuminator, etc...).

Well,maybe it's not the best section of Diyaudio to make that kind of statement, but...

[IG81]

I don't think fullrange is about surpassing multi-way designs. Working towards that goal will of course make for a better fullrange driver, but each scheme can outperform the other in what they do best IMHO.

IG

[andyjevans]

"Nobody would use crossovers..."
What constitues a crossover?>>>

Very good question, and I was musing on this. Apart from the obvious, that you can have an active or passive crossover, what's the situation if you run a full range speaker without any crossover on it and then add a subwoofer or tweeter to fill in the extremes? That way at least you don't put the full range unit through a crossover.

Part of the assumption is that inductors and in particular capacitors degrade the sound. I wouldn't think of putting anything other than a 0.1uF teflon cap in the way of a signal in an amplifier, and the idea of putting the signal through a large polypropylene cap or worse an electrolytic appalls me if I'm wearing my "purist" hat on!

Andy

[GDO]

As a purist, you shouldn't be very happy with what most FRs have to offer above 3khz...

Another story is if you are ready to accept compromises for the sake of running FR, but this has nothing to see with purism... Quite the opposite, imho...

[andyjevans]

Originally Posted by GDO

As a purist, you shouldn't be very happy with what most FRs have to offer above 3khz...

Another story is if you are ready to accept compromises for the sake of running FR, but this has nothing to see with purism... Quite the opposite, imho...

I'm basing assumptions about the audible effects of crossovers on hearing a Jordan JX92 in various combinations with very good ribbon tweeters, which included a crossover. In every case I preferred the Jordan run full range. Funny thing is one or two others didn't! They liked the sound of the tweeter.

Andy

[planet10]

In many ways the best FRs already outperform 2-ways. Especially if you follow Toole/Geddes that everthing below ~80 Hz should be done with multiple optimally placed woofers.

dave

[andyjevans]

Originally Posted by planet10

In many ways the best FRs already outperform 2-ways. Especially if you follow Toole/Geddes that everthing below ~80 Hz should be done with multiple optimally placed woofers.

dave

Hi - could you expand a little on this? You're suggesting no crossover for the full-ranger, just sloping off the subwoofer to fit?

Why multiple - two, as in under the full-rangers? Or more around the room?

andy

[chrisb]

Originally Posted by GDO

Not far enough to outperform any serious 2 way design , i am afraid.

Anyway i find that Jordan widebanders (maybe full range is a bit overpromising...) are good candidates and matches with high end ribbon or dome tweeters.

Even the ultra full range freaks with their Feastrex stuff seem to go 2 ways too...

And btw, wide band seems to be a clear trend in the latest state of the art designs by midwoofer specialists ( Morel Supreme, Scanspeak Illuminator, etc...).

Well,maybe it's not the best section of Diyaudio to make that kind of statement, but...

indeed, some of those could be considered fightin words

out of curiosity, how many of the most recent "full-range" wideband drivers have you heard?

to categorically state as in another post that

As a purist, you shouldn't be very happy with what most FRs have to offer above 3khz...

would suggest the answer to my rhetorical question is "not many"

unless you're intimately familiar with Andy's (or anyone else to whom you're replying) systems and listening aesthetic, think about changing "shouldn't" to "might not" ?