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Old 1st June 2011, 10:24 PM   #21
frugal-phile(tm)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyjevans View Post
I have a pair of Alpair 10s waiting to have boxes made for them!
1st or 2nd gen?

dave
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Old 1st June 2011, 10:41 PM   #22
GDO is offline GDO  Spain
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Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
Absolute necessity if timbre is important ...
Absolutely agree. FRs are not only limited in extension, they are also colored, partly for heavily using break up modes to produce their trebble, and partly for using coloring cabinets to get some more bass.

They sound COHERENT because are xover free, but are not ACURATE, and timbre can certainly not be their stronger point, though in some cases, and with the right program, and in the right mood, they can sound euphonics, which does not mean NEUTRAL.

Last edited by GDO; 1st June 2011 at 10:47 PM.
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Old 1st June 2011, 10:49 PM   #23
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDO View Post
Absolutely agree. FRs are not only limited in extension, they are also colored, partly for heavily using break up modes to produce their trebble, and partly for using coloring cabinets to get some more bass.

They sound COHERENT because are xover free, but are not ACURATE, and timbre can certainly not be their stronger point, though in some cases, and with the right program, and in the right mood, they can sound euphonics, which does not mean NEUTRAL.
Agree ........
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Old 1st June 2011, 11:05 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
Absolute necessity if timbre is important ...are you saying you are able to go 45-13K with one driver ?
Alpair 10.2 & 12 in the right box will do 45-20k. A7 can be made to reach 45 but it is a push... it does better mid thru top.

Some of the TBs look like they are getting there too.

dave
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Old 1st June 2011, 11:09 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by GDO View Post
Absolutely agree. FRs are not only limited in extension, they are also colored, partly for heavily using break up modes to produce their trebble, and partly for using coloring cabinets to get some more bass.
disagree... at least certainly for the best of class (which don't cost an arm & leg)

Quote:
They sound COHERENT because are xover free
Agree

Quote:
but are not ACURATE
disagree

Many do fall into your statement, certainly all you listed (at least the ones that i've heard)

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Old 1st June 2011, 11:09 PM   #26
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDO View Post
Absolutely agree. FRs are not only limited in extension, they are also colored, partly for heavily using break up modes to produce their trebble, and partly for using coloring cabinets to get some more bass.

They sound COHERENT because are xover free, but are not ACURATE, and timbre can certainly not be their stronger point, though in some cases, and with the right program, and in the right mood, they can sound euphonics, which does not mean NEUTRAL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
Agree ........
Single driver designs are the only ones to use "coloring cabinets to get some more bass"?

Expect some push back on the statement re "timbral weakness"


Would there be consensus that regardless of their theoretical or objectively measurable deficiencies (gross distortions at extremes of frequency or SPL, deviations from "linear response" etc ) that FR systems "euphonics" don't necessary disqualify them from worthy listening?

The same question could be posited in regards to many SET amps, including the Neiro.

Andy - if you haven't already had the opportunity, do yourself a favor and track down such a system locally for verification of your own aesthetic - in the end it's your ears.
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Old 1st June 2011, 11:15 PM   #27
GDO is offline GDO  Spain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
Alpair 10.2 & 12 in the right box will do 45-20k. A7 can be made to reach 45 but it is a push... it does better mid thru top.

Some of the TBs look like they are getting there too.

dave
To get balanced highs over 3k stay on the right listening axis and dont move: sweet spot is very spot.... Keep also in the near field. Despite their rising response on axis those drivers sound muddy in the top when listened to from say 3-4m.. Compromises...
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Old 1st June 2011, 11:30 PM   #28
GDO is offline GDO  Spain
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Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
Many do fall into your statement, certainly all you listed (at least the ones that i've heard)

dave
Yeah, except the ones you sell of course ...

You surely do not miss a single opportunity to take good care of the business and it's ok, but for me this is only a hobby...

And btw, it do not mean the ones you sell are worse than others, only that with a good tweeter and the right xover would certainly become a more civilized animal...
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Old 1st June 2011, 11:42 PM   #29
GDO is offline GDO  Spain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
Single driver designs are the only ones to use "coloring cabinets to get some more bass"?


Would there be consensus that regardless of their theoretical or objectively measurable deficiencies (gross distortions at extremes of frequency or SPL, deviations from "linear response" etc ) that FR systems "euphonics" don't necessary disqualify them from worthy listening?

The same question could be posited in regards to many SET amps, including the Neiro.

Enjoyable stuff for sure, but there are so many different things to discover and enjoy, and life is so short, that why always stick to the same old things and same old stories...
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Old 2nd June 2011, 12:05 AM   #30
Lerg is offline Lerg  Canada
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I have heard some nice three way designs new and old, two ways of many different varieties, and a few full/widerange designs. Overall, I have to say that I really do like the fullrange drivers that I have had the pleasure of listening to.
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