Gentlemen..I want to try the low power SET type system.
What I`d like to do is use these speakers.
I actually bought these new back in '84 or so from a small shop in Ottawa called Euphonics.
They are Dayton Wright XAM-4`s. I cut the fabric back to show the drivers.
The lower section is a sealed section with a 10" woofer.
The top section has the mids and tweeters with an ambiance driver on the top back.
They can be Tri-amped via the connections in back.
48" High 11" Wide 16" Depth on the lower section.
I`d like ask you builders what you would use/do to use these with a Sophia Baby tube amp with 10 Watts.
I`m thinking a ZU or Tekton type of set up.
Thanks
Steve
What I`d like to do is use these speakers.
I actually bought these new back in '84 or so from a small shop in Ottawa called Euphonics.
They are Dayton Wright XAM-4`s. I cut the fabric back to show the drivers.
The lower section is a sealed section with a 10" woofer.
The top section has the mids and tweeters with an ambiance driver on the top back.
They can be Tri-amped via the connections in back.
48" High 11" Wide 16" Depth on the lower section.
I`d like ask you builders what you would use/do to use these with a Sophia Baby tube amp with 10 Watts.
I`m thinking a ZU or Tekton type of set up.
Thanks
Steve
Attachments
Pure conjecture on my part, but based on your description, this is a 4 system in which one would expect a XO network that might well have a higher parts count than some of the SET amps I've owned /built 
-- it wouldn't be hard to imagine many SETS not playing happiest into that complex a reactive load.
I'd suggest that while raw horsepower may not be necessary (15-20W?), a P/P amp with feedback might better serve the music with these. Assuming that you've been playing them for at least part of the 27yrs since you bought them, what amp(s) have you liked them with the most?
-- it wouldn't be hard to imagine many SETS not playing happiest into that complex a reactive load.I'd suggest that while raw horsepower may not be necessary (15-20W?), a P/P amp with feedback might better serve the music with these. Assuming that you've been playing them for at least part of the 27yrs since you bought them, what amp(s) have you liked them with the most?
Hi Chris. Actually, I think I should have asked something like this :
" Hey Guy`s can I load these speakers cabinets/boxes with SET type
90-110 DB high efficiency drivers ?"
Really just start from scratch just using the box is my idea.
Is there any problem with the angled top ? I seem to see most SET type speakers ZU and Tekton etc are plain boxes with no slope.
I`d like to finish them in Piano black to mach my Rythmik sub that is if I can do this.
Thanks
" Hey Guy`s can I load these speakers cabinets/boxes with SET type
90-110 DB high efficiency drivers ?"
Really just start from scratch just using the box is my idea.
Is there any problem with the angled top ? I seem to see most SET type speakers ZU and Tekton etc are plain boxes with no slope.
I`d like to finish them in Piano black to mach my Rythmik sub that is if I can do this.
Thanks
Yes.
Depends on what drivers you choose. A strong rising on axis driver such as a Lowther could work when seated, though of course it would 'tear your head off' if roaming around the room.
In the LF, HE woofers tend to need large cabs to go low, so depending on how high an output impedance you choose could make the lower part of the cab too small much in the way of bass output.
GM
Frankly, I think you'd be better off starting from scratch.
By the time you sort out finding FR drivers that would deliver the type of performance that you're probably used to, or find acceptable, within the confines of the existing enclosures, and preparing the boxes for a piano grade finish (Jeff is correct - although gloss white is probably as much of a bitch to get right as black), I think you'd be second guessing the undertaking.
Don't get me wrong, I'm as big a fan andcheerleader for single driver / SET systems as the next guy, (just search "all posts by" ) and have built more than a few labour intensive enclosures over the years, but making a silk purse out of this particular enclosure would not be something I'd consider.
All that said, if you do decide to proceed, you should probably try auditioning at least a few FR type systems to test where your tastes lie. Not all FR/SD systems sound the same, and as very little research here or at any other forums will reveal, all types have advocates and detractors.
These will not be the easiest to find in remaining bricks 'n mortar shops, but presumably there would be some enthusiasts within easy driving distance.
By the time you sort out finding FR drivers that would deliver the type of performance that you're probably used to, or find acceptable, within the confines of the existing enclosures, and preparing the boxes for a piano grade finish (Jeff is correct - although gloss white is probably as much of a bitch to get right as black), I think you'd be second guessing the undertaking.
Don't get me wrong, I'm as big a fan andcheerleader for single driver / SET systems as the next guy, (just search "all posts by" ) and have built more than a few labour intensive enclosures over the years, but making a silk purse out of this particular enclosure would not be something I'd consider.
All that said, if you do decide to proceed, you should probably try auditioning at least a few FR type systems to test where your tastes lie. Not all FR/SD systems sound the same, and as very little research here or at any other forums will reveal, all types have advocates and detractors.
These will not be the easiest to find in remaining bricks 'n mortar shops, but presumably there would be some enthusiasts within easy driving distance.
I don't care how well made they are, those boxes are seriously aesthetically challenged! I think it's time to move on and build something a little more current. How about Alpair 10.2 Pensils, imagine them in piano black:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mark...-tranformers-western-electric-300b-bravo.html
jeff
I'll go against the tide here and say try them as is. If it's to dynamically challenged, biamp using a bigger amp on the woofer section.
I will strongly agree that retrofitting these into some sort of multi way full range system is a huge mistake. You will not learn speaker design that quickly. A simple scratch built project with a single full range driver is a much better bet.
AFA aesthetics, piano black on something that large requires spray equipment. To do it correctly takes about 15+ coats of lacquer, hours of labor, and years of practice. An easier approach would be to recover with gloss black vinyl and make some new grills.
I will strongly agree that retrofitting these into some sort of multi way full range system is a huge mistake. You will not learn speaker design that quickly. A simple scratch built project with a single full range driver is a much better bet.
AFA aesthetics, piano black on something that large requires spray equipment. To do it correctly takes about 15+ coats of lacquer, hours of labor, and years of practice. An easier approach would be to recover with gloss black vinyl and make some new grills.
Since smc hasn't yet I think mentioned the (various?) amp(s?) with which he's powered these in the 27yrs that he's owned them, it'll be rather difficult for any of us to imagine/recommend an affordable SET amp that could do them justice. More than sensitivity/power issue, a big concern should be the potential for the complex reactance of a 4-way crossover to cloud the transparency and immediacy that has been the hallmark of SD/FR / SET combinations we've all enjoyed over the years.
Couldn't agree more on either point - personal aesthetic preferences aside, "piano" grade finishes of any color are best left to those not needing any helpful advice. If the original drivers are still functioning well, and smc decides on a "simple" cosmetic update to these enclosures (along with possible upgrade to XO components), a nice synthetic leather grained material and solid wood trims a la Sonus Faber, et al, could look quite stunning.
As for forays into the FR/SET sandbox, I doubt anyone frequenting a forum named " DIY / Fullrange" would want to dissuade a newbie, but to repeat advice already given - start with something simpler
You could always use gloss black Formica a la NHT (unless you have rounded corners). I did this years ago on a build...
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Thank to all you guys.
Good points made by all !
I`ve use a few amps with these over the years. Nothing exotic just 'blue collar' stuff.
SAE 2400 the 200 watt one with the big gold meters used that for a long time.
Adcom 555 II, a FORTE class A, a PSAudio HCA2 a B&K ST202 and lastly a Parasound HCA 1500.
But...I want to use my little Sophia Baby 10 watt SET amp.
I probably should shelve the idea after all.
A 10" full range with a tweeter seems simple enough BUT....
Anyway here`s a sub I built about 5 years ago. It`s a Rhymik setup. I used a 4'x8' sheet or 2 of 3/4" MDF.
I put some primer and 2 coats of Lesonnal 2k200 Mercedes black on it.
I`m no cabinet maker and can`t come near what I`ve seen you guys do.
Like kec`s ..NICE WORK THERE !!!
So I think I should just look for a nice used set of SET friendly speakers.
Thanks
Steve
Good points made by all !
I`ve use a few amps with these over the years. Nothing exotic just 'blue collar' stuff.
SAE 2400 the 200 watt one with the big gold meters used that for a long time.
Adcom 555 II, a FORTE class A, a PSAudio HCA2 a B&K ST202 and lastly a Parasound HCA 1500.
But...I want to use my little Sophia Baby 10 watt SET amp.
I probably should shelve the idea after all.
A 10" full range with a tweeter seems simple enough BUT....
Anyway here`s a sub I built about 5 years ago. It`s a Rhymik setup. I used a 4'x8' sheet or 2 of 3/4" MDF.
I put some primer and 2 coats of Lesonnal 2k200 Mercedes black on it.
I`m no cabinet maker and can`t come near what I`ve seen you guys do.
Like kec`s ..NICE WORK THERE !!!
So I think I should just look for a nice used set of SET friendly speakers.
Thanks
Steve
Attachments
Last edited:
Steve, by all means you should still consider building a SET friendly speaker - even a 2way with simple passive XO - we DIYers can be more than just a bit enthusiastic about recruiting and retaining new acolytes. It just seems that if the DWs aren't "broke", and you're antsy to update them and/or build something compatible with your Sophia, why not do both?
No offence, but the photos do show that at the very least the cabinets could use some "tarting" up, if for no other reason than to give them more resale appeal if that's in your game plan.
As for suggestions for SET friendly single driver or "assisted wide-band" systems, your biggest problem visiting this group of crazies will be in filtering through the noise and deciding which direction to follow. As I mentioned earlier, if you've not had any/much exposure to this type of speaker system before, you'd probably be well advised to try and track down something local for taste testing - the investment in shoe leather or gas money could pay big dividends.
No offence, but the photos do show that at the very least the cabinets could use some "tarting" up, if for no other reason than to give them more resale appeal if that's in your game plan.
As for suggestions for SET friendly single driver or "assisted wide-band" systems, your biggest problem visiting this group of crazies will be in filtering through the noise and deciding which direction to follow. As I mentioned earlier, if you've not had any/much exposure to this type of speaker system before, you'd probably be well advised to try and track down something local for taste testing - the investment in shoe leather or gas money could pay big dividends.
Steve, giving it a bit more thought, I could make a couple of suggestions for first time build short-list:
Mark Audio Alpair10 or 12 are very neutral and transparent and would be very happy and musical on 10watts in any number of well tested enclosure designs - ( and you might be surprised at how little LF assistance they need - particularly the 12s)
For more dynamic and forward presentation, Fostex or AudioNirvana 6 - 8" would be worth looking at. I'm more than a little familiar with the former, but not at all with the latter.
If you're still inclined to repurpose the existing enclosures, be advised that mods required to meet the requirements of whatever wide-band drivers you select may well be non-reversible.
Mark Audio Alpair10 or 12 are very neutral and transparent and would be very happy and musical on 10watts in any number of well tested enclosure designs - ( and you might be surprised at how little LF assistance they need - particularly the 12s)
For more dynamic and forward presentation, Fostex or AudioNirvana 6 - 8" would be worth looking at. I'm more than a little familiar with the former, but not at all with the latter.
If you're still inclined to repurpose the existing enclosures, be advised that mods required to meet the requirements of whatever wide-band drivers you select may well be non-reversible.
So Chris..I can put a 10" full range in place of the 10" that`s there now, that`s sounds like a start !
OR...I`m pretty sure there`s room in the sealed bottom section for two 8" full range speakers if that would give a more accurate sound, leaving the sub to work from say 60 hz and down.
What about the top section ? maybe a couple 4" with a tweeter in between ?
See...now you`ve got me gearing up on this again
OR...I`m pretty sure there`s room in the sealed bottom section for two 8" full range speakers if that would give a more accurate sound, leaving the sub to work from say 60 hz and down.
What about the top section ? maybe a couple 4" with a tweeter in between ?
See...now you`ve got me gearing up on this again
So Chris..I can put a 10" full range in place of the 10" that`s there now, that`s sounds like a start !
OR...I`m pretty sure there`s room in the sealed bottom section for two 8" full range speakers if that would give a more accurate sound, leaving the sub to work from say 60 hz and down.
What about the top section ? maybe a couple 4" with a tweeter in between ?
See...now you`ve got me gearing up on this again
The Alpairs are 10cm & 12cm metal cone (very!) wide band drivers - either of which would be situated in the upper section. I'd suggest a line level high pass filter on the Sophia, start your experiments circa 80-100Hz . As the Alpairs have excellent mid-bass and are very linear overall, I'd hesitate to filter them off any higher than 120Hz - seamless integration with the built-in woofers could be very difficult.
If you conduct any research on the Mark Audio line of drivers, don't be put off by the low sensitivity figures, and take care at comparing them to other brands. Simply put the Alpairs are one of those brands whose performance far exceeds their printed specifications - 3.5 "real tube watts" into the "little" Alp7 is plenty for some, and 10 watts into the 10s or 12s will feel like a lot more.
I'm assuming the driver in the lower section is an active woofer, for now these might suffice if you feel the need for fill in the octave or so before the separate sub steps in. .
Whichever complement of drivers you select for the upper section, you definitely want to eliminate the deep recess on the mounting panel.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.