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Old 11th May 2011, 10:26 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDO View Post
You can calculate reflections from near boundaries and either DSP it or just ignore.
Provided power response is very smooth falling and I believe "head in the vise" effect will not be there. Not sure how you made your conclusions.


Seems like you are not precisely a desktop speaker guy either... You can calculate reflections, it's true, but forget about EQ ( or don't move a single inch!) and power response is useless in this context. Your only chance is to ignore reflections related issues like colorations, poor and unstable imaging, etc..., or try to ignore them: I CAN'T!

Desktop audio hopelessly stinks, but hey if some enjoy, so enjoy!
Given a choice I'll be listening to a very large 2 way line array with multiple subs, tri-amped. Wait.... I do that.
BTW you are making quite a few assumptions. Seems like you are not precisely a desktop speaker guy either... either or???
Is it my understanding that your wish is to get linear response while listening?
If so, what is the response now? Have you tried RTA the listening spot and "semi-anechoic" fist arriving signal?
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Old 11th May 2011, 10:56 PM   #42
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If so, what is the response now? Have you tried RTA the listening spot and "semi-anechoic" fist arriving signal?

But you just cannnot do that on the desktop, because on the desktop you are way too close to the main and secondary sources involved, and are exposed to a constantly changing chaotic mix of direct and undirect sources as you move only slightly your head, and in a two way setup much worse as the 2 main sources are not coincident and are just in front of your nose and you perfectly perceive distincly each driver as an individual sound source ... and the edges of the cabinets too are also at a few inches and also try to be an actor in this horror show ...

I think the most acceptable proposals for the desktop are from specialized designers that have studied the issues of the desktop context, i mean companies like Logitec, Altec, etc... Guys who design desktop speakers as classical nearfield monitors generally only demonstrate a complete misunderstanding of the specific issues of this kind of speaker...imho.

Last edited by GDO; 11th May 2011 at 10:59 PM.
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Old 11th May 2011, 11:14 PM   #43
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If you think that desktop speakers can not dissapear, than you havent heard good desktop loudspeakers

on my widerangers I can hear a Bird behind me and about 30-40m above in the air
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Old 11th May 2011, 11:20 PM   #44
GDO is offline GDO  Spain
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If you think that desktop speakers can not dissapear, than you havent heard good desktop loudspeakers

on my widerangers I can hear a Bird behind me and about 30-40m above in the air
Stop smoking enhancing 3d experiences stuff !

Or tell us your secret...
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Old 11th May 2011, 11:20 PM   #45
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Old 11th May 2011, 11:25 PM   #46
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Coral
Smoker.
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Old 11th May 2011, 11:40 PM   #47
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here are those special Buds
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 12th May 2011, 12:20 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDO View Post
If so, what is the response now? Have you tried RTA the listening spot and "semi-anechoic" fist arriving signal?

But you just cannnot do that on the desktop, because on the desktop you are way too close to the main and secondary sources involved, and are exposed to a constantly changing chaotic mix of direct and undirect sources as you move only slightly your head, and in a two way setup much worse as the 2 main sources are not coincident and are just in front of your nose and you perfectly perceive distincly each driver as an individual sound source ... and the edges of the cabinets too are also at a few inches and also try to be an actor in this horror show ...

I think the most acceptable proposals for the desktop are from specialized designers that have studied the issues of the desktop context, i mean companies like Logitec, Altec, etc... Guys who design desktop speakers as classical nearfield monitors generally only demonstrate a complete misunderstanding of the specific issues of this kind of speaker...imho.
if a near boundary reflection presents such a big problem then a nice set of headphones is your answer.
Quite honestly I fail to see what you are suggesting as to a DIY approach.
Have you ever taken apart a set Logitec speakers? $1 in parts?
Coaxial driver may be a good idea btw.
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Old 12th May 2011, 08:20 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by R-Carpenter View Post
if a near boundary reflection presents such a big problem then a nice set of headphones is your answer.
Quite honestly I fail to see what you are suggesting as to a DIY approach.
Have you ever taken apart a set Logitec speakers? $1 in parts?
Coaxial driver may be a good idea btw.
I didn't especially like headphones, but i rediscovered them listening to music. and especially looking at videos on my laptop.

Btw, desktop speakers is a huge mass market with millions of units sold and as usual with a very low price point, loudspeakers pocket money can buy, so no surprise that for under 20 $ stuff you get under 20$ quality. But i find obvious that the guys who design those devices have made a clear effort to adapt the speaker to the desktop environment/conditions.

First they use small fullrange units mainly of 2' and under. It's not (only) because the smaller the cheaper, but rather because the smaller the better it mimics a point source and remember you are listening at a few inches of them. For the same reason 2 ways dont seem to be a good idea: single source seems definitely the way to go here.

Then with tiny self disapearing drivers you can build a small self disapearing cabinet with narrow minimum baffling for low diffraction, since at a short listening distance we are also in a worst case situation regarding edge diffaction issues: strong secondary sources easily identified by small head movements.

Then tiny drivers can be located so close to the desktop that practically the desktop reflexion follows so closely the first arrival that it is practically a single arrival. 2 ways here is awfull since the W case, if small enough might be ok, but what about the T on top of it...Other solution is to build a mini 1' drivers array to smear the destop reflection.

Last, as typically found in these setups would be a subwoofer because of the too obvious limitations of a 1 or 2 incher in the bass.

This is not perfect, especially when the economy limits the budget, but this way of designing for the desktop makes to my eyes (and to mu ears....) much more sense than putting at the sizes of a laptop a pair of 2 ways studio nearfield monitors that will sound there as the worst multimedia crap...im(not so)ho... and that's what i would inspire myself of if trying to make a diy desktop speakers

Last edited by GDO; 12th May 2011 at 08:39 AM.
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