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Old 8th May 2011, 12:59 PM   #11
borispm is offline borispm  Hong Kong
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Chazdrumzalot,

Really nice AKG headphones there =]
For the open baffle, I have started a thread on using a Tangband W3 and a Tangband W6 woofer with minimalist crossover. I think you can give it a try by simply scaling things up, see if it works. I will work on those speakers this summer so if you're not that urgent I may tell you how they sound when I get them.
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Old 8th May 2011, 01:10 PM   #12
togril is offline togril  Australia
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I have some W5's in their boxes - and unsure of what kind of system to build, (and how the speakers actually sound) so this is really good for me to see.
Togril.
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Old 8th May 2011, 03:25 PM   #13
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FYI, they are tested in the current issue (2011/3) of the excellent German loudspeaker diy magazine Hobby Hifi.
Their conclusions and recommendations are that:
- a 25 cm (10") wide enclosure will work well so that you don't need a BSC filter then.
- for BR, they prefer an enclosure of 22 to 25 litres, with a BR hole diameter of 60mm and a BR pipe length of 120mm. In the case of the 22l enclosure they use a "vorwiderstand" (extra resistor in series, I think) of 0.2 ohm, and for 25l they use 1 ohm. I must say that I don't quite get why one would put a resistor in series with a FR loudspeaker, and how it would influence the bass. Perhaps someone can clarify? In any case in this kind of enclosure you get -3db at 42hz (22l) or 39hz (25l)
- while the frequency plot is in general quite linear, you can see in the waterfallplot that there are some resonances at around 3.7 and 10khz. In my view, if there is some bite to the sound, I would try a correction filter to surpress the resonance at 3.7 khz, where the freq. response also has a small peak.

Hence it is quite an interesting speaker indeed.

They also compare it to the W4-1320 which it tested elsewhere in the issue, and it must be said that the waterfall diagram of this one doesn't show annoying resonances, but of course it will offer less bass (fs=70hz + smaller surface compared to fs=57hz for the W5) in its optimal small box (only 4 to 4.5 litres). Choice between the 2 drivers is clearly a trade-off. For a home cinema with an extra sub I would go for the smaller speaker, for relatively compact stereo music speakers I would go for the W5.

As an aside they also did test the Markaudio Alpair 12, of which the waterfall plot shows several really pretty bad resonances from about 4khz upwards, which could be perceived as hard/glassy tonality when used with neutral amplifiers. Indeed I read a few reports here and there from people who found that there was some irritating bite to its sound.

Last edited by talaerts; 8th May 2011 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 8th May 2011, 04:00 PM   #14
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Very interesting. The series resistor is raising the system Q to increase bass response. See how the resistor is affecting the speaker by using the formula at the bottom of this page:

Strassacker: Lautsprecher - Boxen - Selbstbau

For the 25L enclosure they are raising the Qts to about .5. The tradeoff is that the sensitivity is less, but since they're not losing efficiency from BSC, it seems like a great idea. Maybe I'll try the same thing with the horn if the speakers are sounding thin, since higher Q is shown to increase bass horn output across the baffle step region. Unfortunately I won't get bass output to 39hz with the horn I don't think...
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Old 8th May 2011, 04:07 PM   #15
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Borispm, I appreciate you noticing those AKGs there! In my youth I was a moderator at Head-Fi.org where I was a staunch supporter of AKGs. It was my interest in headphones that precipitated my interest in full range drivers to begin with!
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Old 8th May 2011, 04:42 PM   #16
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Here is another W5 design, a small BR with, cleverly, an adjustable set of corrections.
I now wonder if my above mention of a 22 to 25 litres enclosure with a series resistor, combined with this variable adjustment filter would be a winning strategy:

http://oaudio.de/media/products/3aac7ea456ba5e49f69.pdf
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Old 8th May 2011, 04:53 PM   #17
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Furthermore, considering the W5's relatively low xmax (3mm or so) it would be advisable in the above configurations to make a dual-chamber reflex to suppress excursion. I've half a mind to go that route now...what do I do?? The primary reason to go the horn route is for horn bass, so what's more important: horn bass, or an extra 10hz or so extension?

Scottmoose, is there still any chance you'd be willing to sim the W5 in a BVR?
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Old 8th May 2011, 05:50 PM   #18
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I checked up on these dual chamber reflex boxes, they seem interesting to try and not difficult to calculate. For theory, I found:

Dual chamber bass reflex design - The Art of Sound Forum
DCR
Project

But I didn't find calculator info on the "fostex style" DBR, with the first chamber only firing into a second chamber.

about:
Quote:
so what's more important: horn bass, or an extra 10hz or so extension?
I would go for extension.
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Old 8th May 2011, 05:55 PM   #19
tomchr is offline tomchr  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris661 View Post
Scale it up and have a 18" bass driver per side?
Along those lines. W5-1611 in a 4" tube. Back it up with a 15" or 18" H-baffle sub. That could rock.
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Old 8th May 2011, 10:01 PM   #20
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Okay, so now I'm considering a DCR of internal volume around 25L, external dimensions 10" x 17" x 13.5". But I'm still surprised that 10" width is enough to not be concerned with BSC with this driver. The flat 5 design, by contrast, is something like 16" wide. Talaerts, can you tell us any more about that article?

(EDIT) p.s. there is no software for designing a fostex-style double bass reflex, although presumably MJK's spreadsheets will do it. DCRs are much easier to design it seems.

Last edited by chazdrumzalot; 8th May 2011 at 10:23 PM.
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