Please forgive my ignorance here. I've been searching the web for a long time, and have searched boards here too. Let me just lay out my dilemna...
My wife plays bass guitar, and I want to install an onboard amp. The amp circuit I will be using is here:
Speaker Drive Amplifier
I spoke with the manufacturer, who says it will work for bass, and recommends an 8ohm woofer at 5 watts or better. Here's the big problem...
I might be able to squeeze a 4" round speaker in there, but ideally should go with something slightly smaller. The big, big problem is that the bass is only 1.5" deep. I'd go the full 1.5" and put a plastic plate over the back, but don't want anything deeper than that. I'm also looking to do it cheap.
I'm willing to make compromises. Obviously sound quality won't be great, and it doesn't need to be super loud. At minimum, she should be able to hear herself practicing with the tv on and/or the baby screaming. The dream scenario would be that she could hear herself in a rehearsal, at the approximate decibel level of an unamplified acoustic guitar.
Any suggestions? I'd appreciate any help you might offer.
-Solid
My wife plays bass guitar, and I want to install an onboard amp. The amp circuit I will be using is here:
Speaker Drive Amplifier
I spoke with the manufacturer, who says it will work for bass, and recommends an 8ohm woofer at 5 watts or better. Here's the big problem...
I might be able to squeeze a 4" round speaker in there, but ideally should go with something slightly smaller. The big, big problem is that the bass is only 1.5" deep. I'd go the full 1.5" and put a plastic plate over the back, but don't want anything deeper than that. I'm also looking to do it cheap.
I'm willing to make compromises. Obviously sound quality won't be great, and it doesn't need to be super loud. At minimum, she should be able to hear herself practicing with the tv on and/or the baby screaming. The dream scenario would be that she could hear herself in a rehearsal, at the approximate decibel level of an unamplified acoustic guitar.
Any suggestions? I'd appreciate any help you might offer.
-Solid
There is a 3" Aurasound full range that goes down to 80 Hz which should work for you.
It is 8 ohms, costs $12.50 and actually puts out decent bass although not at high levels.
https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=1400
It is 2 inches deep so you'll have to put an "extension ring" or 1/2" spacer on it for the magnet to clear.
It is 8 ohms, costs $12.50 and actually puts out decent bass although not at high levels.
https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=1400
It is 2 inches deep so you'll have to put an "extension ring" or 1/2" spacer on it for the magnet to clear.
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You're probably going to need a more efficient speaker than the one above: a screaming baby is very loud.
How about making it so she can plug headphones in? You don't have to install a speaker, the sound quality, bass extension and maximum volume would be much better.
She'd need something to plug in to for rehearsals with an acoustic guitar, but for practicing at home, I think headphones are the way to go.
Chris
PS - this came up on the same website, 5dB more efficiency, losing some bass extension. There's other stuff, with sensitivity of~88dB at 1w, , but you lose yet more bass extension for more volume. It's all compromise...
How about making it so she can plug headphones in? You don't have to install a speaker, the sound quality, bass extension and maximum volume would be much better.
She'd need something to plug in to for rehearsals with an acoustic guitar, but for practicing at home, I think headphones are the way to go.
Chris
PS - this came up on the same website, 5dB more efficiency, losing some bass extension. There's other stuff, with sensitivity of~88dB at 1w, , but you lose yet more bass extension for more volume. It's all compromise...
I'm probably going to add a headphones output in addition to a speaker. The amp circuit allows for it.
Thanks for the replies. Both those speakers you mentioned have a depth significantly greater than 1.5"/38mm. They'd hang out of the guitar. I ran across this one last night. Do you think it would work?
Tang Band W2-1625SA 2" Neodymium Subwoofer
They call it a subwoofer, but at that size, I can't imagine it won't produce some full range sounds. And if not, may I could compliment it with another speaker or something??
Thanks for the replies. Both those speakers you mentioned have a depth significantly greater than 1.5"/38mm. They'd hang out of the guitar. I ran across this one last night. Do you think it would work?
Tang Band W2-1625SA 2" Neodymium Subwoofer
They call it a subwoofer, but at that size, I can't imagine it won't produce some full range sounds. And if not, may I could compliment it with another speaker or something??
Just to be clear on what you are trying to do:
"I want to install an onboard amp"
"the bass is only 1.5" deep"
Are you building an amplifier (including speaker/enclosure) into her bass guitar?
If that is the case then you need not be concerned with getting a good very small woofer. Any such driver will require an enclosure of some kind to produce bass. Any (solid body) guitar mounted speaker will be limited to about 200Hz and up. These drivers will have a sensitivity in the range of 78-84db/w/m. You might be better off choosing an open back midrange speaker - greater sensitivity, and operating open back.
Not trying to rain on your project. Just want to keep expectations realistic.
Possibilities open up quite a bit if you consider a miniature bass guitar amplifier, like those shown on the website, but somewhat larger for bass guitar.
Bob
"I want to install an onboard amp"
"the bass is only 1.5" deep"
Are you building an amplifier (including speaker/enclosure) into her bass guitar?
If that is the case then you need not be concerned with getting a good very small woofer. Any such driver will require an enclosure of some kind to produce bass. Any (solid body) guitar mounted speaker will be limited to about 200Hz and up. These drivers will have a sensitivity in the range of 78-84db/w/m. You might be better off choosing an open back midrange speaker - greater sensitivity, and operating open back.
Not trying to rain on your project. Just want to keep expectations realistic.
Possibilities open up quite a bit if you consider a miniature bass guitar amplifier, like those shown on the website, but somewhat larger for bass guitar.
Bob
I say build a good headphone amplifier and use a good pair of studio headphones, then do what my uncle does when he is practicing and still wants to interact with his family... he wears the cans on his neck. IMO, this will give you the low notes that a small non-enclosed speaker driver cannot.
ensen.
ensen.Thanks guys. Let me be clearer. If this were my guitar, either or those solutions would be fine. But I just plug into my effects processor, which is wired to my desktop PC, and practice there, with all the effects and amp mods I'll be using in performance. My wife, on the other hand, will sit on the couch playing unplugged and singing in a different key, which is just as well, because the strings aren't generally in tune anyway. This works for her because she can't hear what she's playing. However, if she could hear what she was playing, I can't help but think it would make her a better bass player.
There will probably be a headphones jack on her guitar, but I'll be shocked if she ever uses it. Too much work. I do think she'd turn a knob on though.
So do you think that Tang Band 2" Subwoofer is probably not a good candidate? I was thinking about an old tv speaker maybe, but I'm worried I might not get enough low end.
Thanks again,
David
There will probably be a headphones jack on her guitar, but I'll be shocked if she ever uses it. Too much work. I do think she'd turn a knob on though.
So do you think that Tang Band 2" Subwoofer is probably not a good candidate? I was thinking about an old tv speaker maybe, but I'm worried I might not get enough low end.
Thanks again,
David
Given the purpose of your project, the limited power and the tight fit, here are a few drivers that might be what you are looking for.
Vifa TC9FD
http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/264-1062s.pdf
HiWave 2" square driver
http://www.parts-express.com/docs/s...l-range-square-speaker-12-watt-spec-sheet.pdf
TB W3-881S
http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/264-812s.pdf
Peerless 830-985
http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/264-1050s.pdf
TB W2-800SL
Tang Band W2-800SL 2" Aluminum/Mg Full Range Driver
'Factory Buyout'
3" x 5" Ribbed Paper Cone Shielded Woofer Speaker
At this price you could buy a few spares!
Choose based on fit (dimensions) and efficiency.
Regards,
Bob
Vifa TC9FD
http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/264-1062s.pdf
HiWave 2" square driver
http://www.parts-express.com/docs/s...l-range-square-speaker-12-watt-spec-sheet.pdf
TB W3-881S
http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/264-812s.pdf
Peerless 830-985
http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/264-1050s.pdf
TB W2-800SL
Tang Band W2-800SL 2" Aluminum/Mg Full Range Driver
'Factory Buyout'
3" x 5" Ribbed Paper Cone Shielded Woofer Speaker
At this price you could buy a few spares!
Choose based on fit (dimensions) and efficiency.
Regards,
Bob
Thanks!
Bob, some of those look like exactly what I need. I appreciate you taking the time to find them for me. I ran across those 3x5's as well. They're tempting, but they'd stick out of the back of the guitar. Question - some of those speakers are 4 ohms. I'm pretty ignorant, but I thought I had to stick with 8 ohm speakers exclusively. Is that not correct?
Thanks,
David
Bob, some of those look like exactly what I need. I appreciate you taking the time to find them for me. I ran across those 3x5's as well. They're tempting, but they'd stick out of the back of the guitar. Question - some of those speakers are 4 ohms. I'm pretty ignorant, but I thought I had to stick with 8 ohm speakers exclusively. Is that not correct?
Thanks,
David
David,
The website says to use a '4 or 8 ohm speaker', so either should work. Usually solid state amps deliver more power into lower impedance drivers, but not more than twice as much (4 vs 8 ohms), so that's at most only 3 db more sound - obvious, but not by much. However, it all adds up. If you get a few more db by using a 4 ohm driver AND you pick a more sensitive driver you could end up with several db more sound capability. I would also look for a higher Qts to get more upper bass (that's as low as your likely to get) and lower mids. Otherwise it could end up sounding a little thin. A low Qts will pull the bass and lower mids down (with no enclosure loading).
Keep us posted on your project!
Bob
The website says to use a '4 or 8 ohm speaker', so either should work. Usually solid state amps deliver more power into lower impedance drivers, but not more than twice as much (4 vs 8 ohms), so that's at most only 3 db more sound - obvious, but not by much. However, it all adds up. If you get a few more db by using a 4 ohm driver AND you pick a more sensitive driver you could end up with several db more sound capability. I would also look for a higher Qts to get more upper bass (that's as low as your likely to get) and lower mids. Otherwise it could end up sounding a little thin. A low Qts will pull the bass and lower mids down (with no enclosure loading).
Keep us posted on your project!
Bob
I very much appreciate your advice. All things considered, I think I'm gonna go with this one:
http://www.parts-express.com/docs/s...l-range-square-speaker-12-watt-spec-sheet.pdf
This one would also fit nicely:
Tang Band W2-800SL 2" Aluminum/Mg Full Range Driver
But the Qts is only .23, which is small compared to the rest of them. The HiWave speaker has a Qts of .65 I understand what you're saying about a few extra decibels, and I know that a few can add up to a significant difference. Anyway, thanks again. I'll keep you updated.
David
http://www.parts-express.com/docs/s...l-range-square-speaker-12-watt-spec-sheet.pdf
This one would also fit nicely:
Tang Band W2-800SL 2" Aluminum/Mg Full Range Driver
But the Qts is only .23, which is small compared to the rest of them. The HiWave speaker has a Qts of .65 I understand what you're saying about a few extra decibels, and I know that a few can add up to a significant difference. Anyway, thanks again. I'll keep you updated.
David
The build is progressing well, and now I have another question. I've been trying to read a little on speaker cabinets, and I think any reasonable effort I can make will help. The speaker is square in the front and round in the back. So it sits over a round hole about 3/4" deep, and probably somewhere between 1 3/4" - 2" in diameter. I want to optimize the sound and get as much bass as possible without getting overly complicated. It currently is a tight space surrounded by a significant amount of wood (agathis) on all sides. I'd prefer not to hollow out a huge cavity in there, and it would be tough to do, but I could certainly make it a little bigger if I need to. It has no holes except the one for the wires to run out. I think I could make it more or less air tight by coating the whole cavity in Plasti-Dip. I could also cut some sort of sound hole in there if I knew how big to make it and where to place it. What are your thoughts?
I also can't figure out which solder lug on the speaker is positive and which is negative/ground. Or does the speaker even have positive and ground? I assume the hot/positive lead goes to the lug above the words, but have no idea why I think that. Eh?
I realize I'm asking you to spoon feed me here, but I can't catch up with the learning curve quickly enough. Thank you for your help.
David
I also can't figure out which solder lug on the speaker is positive and which is negative/ground. Or does the speaker even have positive and ground? I assume the hot/positive lead goes to the lug above the words, but have no idea why I think that. Eh?
I realize I'm asking you to spoon feed me here, but I can't catch up with the learning curve quickly enough. Thank you for your help.
David
i can personally vouch for the fact that the tangband 2" w2-800sl WILL NOT cover even the merest amount of bass. without a hi pass to save the driver from over excursion (xmax 0.5mm) i dont think it could take more than a couple of watts CLEAN...any sort of distortion and im not sure it would survive. unless the bass is something like a fender jazz, or other with alot of 'tone', in which case you may be lucky enough to get a reasonable sound from harmonics @ 200hz and up...
IMHO you wont get ANY bass in such a situation, only the overtones. these drivers ONLY really generate any bass, if the box volume and TS parameters are designed to. you might stand a chance with something like an alpair6, but even then the available box volume would be WAY too small. the best i can think of would be to use the hollow behind the pickguard, cut all the way thru and install a 5 or 6" hi efficiency speaker in this gap, and run it open backed; then figure out some way of mounting pickups again, infront of the cone.
edit. the smaller lug is likely to be positive, if there is a smaller lug. or it may be marked with a red dot. if not take a 1.5v cell and touch the wire to the terminals of battery and speaker. if the cone moves out , then the lug which the + side of the cell is attached, is also +
IMHO you wont get ANY bass in such a situation, only the overtones. these drivers ONLY really generate any bass, if the box volume and TS parameters are designed to. you might stand a chance with something like an alpair6, but even then the available box volume would be WAY too small. the best i can think of would be to use the hollow behind the pickguard, cut all the way thru and install a 5 or 6" hi efficiency speaker in this gap, and run it open backed; then figure out some way of mounting pickups again, infront of the cone.
edit. the smaller lug is likely to be positive, if there is a smaller lug. or it may be marked with a red dot. if not take a 1.5v cell and touch the wire to the terminals of battery and speaker. if the cone moves out , then the lug which the + side of the cell is attached, is also +
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I don't know about these, but this HiWave speaker lists an XMax value of 3mm. I'm gonna give it a shot. I've already hollowed out the cavity. If it doesn't work, I'll start adapting the plan. I'm really just looking for advice as to what would be best concerning the cavity, whether to leave it round and small, widen in out and square it off, give more room in the back to the speaker, seal it air tight, make a port, that sort of thing. I do appreciate your reply though.
If you look at Bjorno attached pics, youll need to hollow out about a litre behind the driver, whatever you do. I dont want to be pessimistic but i dont know if thats actually possible....best off leaving it sealed or ported it would appear, and trying to get the volume as near to 1 litre as possible, basically make the cavity as big as you can really....im not very confident youll get a litre hole in the bass guitars body thou.......maybe use a choke or EQ to shelve off the mids-HF from somewhere or other, and give it as much juice as the amp can/drivers will take.
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The likelyhood of being able to install a large enough cavity (enclosed volume) is pretty slim. The 1.23L vented alignment will require a cavity volume of 75 cubic inches. For a 1.5 inch depth, you would need a w x L of 49 square inches (such as a 7 x 7 inch cavity, or a 4 x 12 1/4 inch, etc.). However, it is possible that the routed cavity for the pickups and controls could add significant volume, if connected to the speaker cavity. This is a real option. You will likely be surprised at how much routed space there is behind the pickups, 1/4 inch jack, controls and pick guard. Check it out and try to estimate the number of cubic inches you could gain. You can also stuff the cavity (all of it) with dacron, acoustastuff, etc.) to get a realistic effective volume increase of around 1.2.
Otherwise, consider deepening the cavity to within about 1/4 inch of the back of the guitar, and drilling a circular (or other) pattern of small diameter holes
(six to eight 1/8th inch holes for exp.) to provide aperiodic loading. Then add equalization to the input signal (kind of like a low level BSC circuit). That way there is no loss of power or efficiency. You could even use the 3-band EQ harness that the amp maker sells (turn up the bass, moderate decrease of mids and highs - adjust be ear).
Good luck,
Bob
Otherwise, consider deepening the cavity to within about 1/4 inch of the back of the guitar, and drilling a circular (or other) pattern of small diameter holes
(six to eight 1/8th inch holes for exp.) to provide aperiodic loading. Then add equalization to the input signal (kind of like a low level BSC circuit). That way there is no loss of power or efficiency. You could even use the 3-band EQ harness that the amp maker sells (turn up the bass, moderate decrease of mids and highs - adjust be ear).
Good luck,
Bob
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