What FR $250 pair, driver works best in a bookshelf sized speaker?

[60ndown]

I'd like to build a pair of speakers for a friend, bookshelf sized, and unfortunately they will be hung on/from brackets on the wall.

full/extended range, no x-overs please.

Transparency, tonality, non fatiguing and the ability to get 'slightly louder' then your average 3 watt amp does,

are more important then *imaging*

Im good with tools and wood, and can build almost anything, but prefer not to build one of those *crazy complicated* horn enclosures.

medium/larger sized room, SS amplification , hung on the wall, and a sub will take over duty from about 60hz n down

'world music' is the norm, not classical or jazz

anyone want to recommend a driver and box design?


or do I give him my Fe167es?


thanks in advance for any ideas/guidance/help.

 

[planet10]

How big is bookshelf sized? From the FE167 suggestion, i'm guessing 15 litres is OK. Given the amp, the kind of music, your requiremnts, and the ability to "get slightly louder", i'd suggest CSS/Mark Audio EL70. Works well in a wide range of enclosures.

Even if you go for the "deluxe" version of the driver you'll be well within your budget.

Here is a lomg thread on one person's experience. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/164832-mar-kel70-sweden.html

dave

 

[60ndown]

its funny, just yesterday i was typing how a product doesnt have to be expensive to be excellent, but when im shown a $55 driver that may fill my needs i automatically want to spend more.

CSS has a few kits, all id have to do is build a box, well 2 boxes.

thanks for the suggestion

 

[c2cthomas]

its funny, just yesterday i was typing how a product doesnt have to be expensive to be excellent, but when im shown a $55 driver that may fill my needs i automatically want to spend more.

No worries there mate - if you really desire expensive drivers we can suggest several!!!! Not that they will sound any better - but what the heck - it's only money........

 

[sreten]

Hi,

I'd say the short answer is the Jordan JX92S, but its somewhat over your budget.

TBH for full range drivers you should look at VFM, not a specific price point IMO.

rgds, Sreten.

 

[DYNABLASTERTUNERS]

Tang Band W5-1611

 

[planet10]

Hi,

I'd say the short answer is the Jordan JX92S, but its somewhat over your budget.

The Jordan is a very good driver, but overpriced IMHO. I have a pair here (BTW, the best of 3 pair i have had), who's sole purpose is to let people listen to them in comparison with other drivers. For the same price as a single JX92S (at least in the US, in the UK things are somewhat different i understand) you can buy a pair of Alpair 7 for instance -- it is only one example of a better driver for less money (my opinion, you can drop by and make your own evaluation). The similar sized Alpair 10.2 is only $50 more than the A7. I haven't heard the TB dynablasters has suggested but it certainly looks interesting. But for the requirements (as can be gathered from what is posted), i'd still recommend EL70 as having a better balance to cover the requirments. The budget has room for either more quantity (2 pair) or quality (enhanced EL70), or put the spare budget into better source/amp or take everyone out to dinner.

Sreten is right thou that one should look at VAF (Value for Money), and even more importantly driver/box combos that fit the usuage requirements first.

dave

 

[DYNABLASTERTUNERS]

planet10 why don't you try those TB, they are best VAF

 

[planet10]

planet10 why don't you try those TB, they are best VAF

I may just, they are on sale at PE. The amount of the discount is kinda scary in light of on-going & wide ranging reports/rumours of TB QC issues. The TB W8s i've had thru here haven't had any QC issues thou, they are just pricey.

dave

 

[steviedon]

I've got 5 w5-1611 sitting around awaiting a HT build and they seem to be fairly consistent in build Q and sound........on open air listening tests at least. They are astoundingly light with the Nd magnets and composite frames. The graph is pretty too.... that is if it's accurate. I'll be shoehorning them into the alpair 7 DBR cab as scottmoose suggested to me a while back. This could be an option if you're willing to standmount. DYNABLASTER- have you heard the w5-1611 in a proper cab and/or measured them?

 

[DYNABLASTERTUNERS]

I measure, NOT!

Yes I've tested them with my ears and listened to them as nearfeld PC Loudspeakers about a month or so, active crossover at about 300-400hz plus kickbass on the floor, and they sound very non fatiquing, but they don't miss any details, also good HF, and vocals are scary realistic, for that money I really don't know what could compete with them (except maybe the Bamboo cones, but I havent heard them yet, altough they're waiting here ready steady )

here's my suboptimal test arrangement, it's just for quick & dirty learning what personality the tested Widerangers have, because I have many and now I just try them in this way, I apologize for the pics and mess

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

 

[planet10]

for that money I really don't know what could compete with them

I bet EL70 give them a run...

dave

 

[DYNABLASTERTUNERS]

can be possible, but Tang Bands have some magic that can't be explained with words


TBs I've listened:

rare OEM W3-823, very stunning real focusing and details, action, but needs a notch between 4-5kHz, those are bargain if you are a notch fun(I like them much more than Alpair 6 gen.1- because a lack of HF, etc.)

silver W3-871, absolute unrealistic and unbalanced, what is oposite from they hype, I don't like this speaker because it has no intimacy and TB magic, to me it sounds flat and fabricated

those 5" polypropilene cone, big cone for a 5"!, mellow and realistic, TB magic is there- but some smaller are better in this, no need for supertweeter, but you can add the rearfiring supertweeter ambience ennhancer , vocals are remarkable and drag you into the dimension of sweetness supersound 3D+ hehe

and flat w3-1797- those are unreal, my favourite, for tehno I dont know- maybe the ultimate widerangers on planet 4 electro music those immense high frequencies, they shower you with sound and the whole room is one big soundstage, not just in front of you or left right, those change the thickness of air, and throw a dimension that is unbeleivable, they are just funny how good they are

 

[60ndown]

hmmm, tang band or css? given i dont use computer software to design boxes, and ill likely be building sealed boxes, which one of these 2 drivers will perform best in a sealed box ?

and if they perform about equally, which one will get louder and remain least fatiguing?


tang band is 25 wrms, i dont see a power handling number on the css site for the el70?

25 watts seems weak to me, i recently played with this

https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=150&products_id=843

and liked it a lot, very warm sounding with recessed mids and highs, and 60 watts ...

it has an 8" brother

https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=150&products_id=848

efficiency is amazing, might not even need a sub?

http://www.decware.com/newsite/DM945.html

 

[planet10]

Power handling is more or less irrelevant.

I haven't seen a lot of designs for the TB, but there are lots & lots of proven cabinets for the EL70. Not many drivers designed for sealed boxrs these days.

p10 hifi | Box Library / CSS

dave

 

[60ndown]

Power handling is more or less irrelevant.

I haven't seen a lot of designs for the TB, but there are lots & lots of proven cabinets for the EL70. Not many drivers designed for sealed boxrs these days.

p10 hifi | Box Library / CSS

dave

doesnt power handling and efficiency determine volume ability?

dont all drivers work very in a well sealed box?

sealed boxes mean no phase issues with ports/vents and rear waves right?

 

[rjbond3rd]

In my limited experience, (and over-generalizing a bit), for a given driver, sealed will mean a higher cutoff (does not play as low). It also may mean higher excursion so that puts a limit on maximum SPL. It's easier to get "right" (i.e., to avoid misalignments). The smoother 12db/octave rolloff may blend better with room gain, and may sound "cleaner" because it's simpler.

For that same driver (in general), ported can play lower with less excursion. The roll-off is steeper, and the driver is at risk below the box tuning frequency (nothing damps it). And many commercial ported boxes (at Best Buy etc.) are woefully, horribly misaligned due to either poor design, or poor quality control on the drivers, or other factors.

But either design can be done correctly and sound good. The main problem I have with ported is if you tune it to maximize bass extension, it -may- sound "less clear" than sealed or horn. So the answer is simply to tune it higher and accept less quantity for higher quality. It's very room-dependent in the end.

 

[planet10]

doesnt power handling and efficiency determine volume ability?

It would but there is no standard for measuring power handling, so nothing to compare. Also, you invariably run out of power before the driver runs out.

dont all drivers work very in a well sealed box?

sealed boxes mean no phase issues with ports/vents and rear waves right?

Most drivers made today have T/S optimized for some sort of vented enclosure,
|In a sealed enclosure they will have less group delay & a slower roll-off, but usually insufficient bass to keep people happy.

Unfortunately the 1 driver that did quite well sealed, the MA CHR70.2, turned out more popular than anyone planned for and they sold out months ago, with the next ones probably still 6-8 weeks away.

dave

 

[60ndown]

CSS EL70s ordered (i trust the build house/ QC more then tang band)

will be using the walls as wave guides.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/188213-room-walls-waveguides.html

and a sub



thanks for the help/advice/guidance.....

 

[sreten]

doesnt power handling and efficiency determine volume ability?

dont all drivers work very in a well sealed box?

sealed boxes mean no phase issues with ports/vents and rear waves right?

Hi,

a) only in the midrange, for bass volume displacement determines max volume.

b) all drivers can work in a sealed box of some sort, doesn't mean they should be.

c) The EL70 parameters indicate a smallish sealed well stuffed box.
A subwoofer will be needed to produce realistic low bass levels.

rgds, sreten.