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-   -   Ideas on Internal Wiring for Saburo (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/188032-ideas-internal-wiring-saburo.html)

CastleJohn 28th April 2011 05:16 PM

Ideas on Internal Wiring for Saburo
 
Hi there. Managed to build my Saburo cabinets at long last. Now wondering how to wire them up - before glueing the lids on. Clearly it would be a good idea to allow for the possible replacement of drivers. So what is the best way to facilitate this? One problem is that the terminals on the Fostex FE126En are not very robust and not suitable for directly attaching to any thick or stiff cable. Should I be thinking about laying permanent internal wiring leading to screw terminals located somewhere in the compression chamber, these connected to the driver with a short length of thinner, flexible wire?

Is it an idea to use solid copper busbar rather than wire?

Any ideas for a good solution most welcome. I guess you've all thought about this before.

[Incidentally, I used two-part epoxy resin plus microfibres for my adhesive. It's the only thing that definitely doesn't shrink or creep and it's great for filling any gaps. Much loved by boatbuilders.]

Scottmoose 28th April 2011 05:39 PM

You don't need thick wire for internal runs; anything above ~22ga should be fine.

chrisb 28th April 2011 05:45 PM

In my opinion, solid buss bar would be overkill for this application, and require an extraneous mechanical/solder connection. I've built a couple of pairs of double mouth horns ( Aiko and Valiant), and installed a recessed terminal cup at the vertical center of back panel, and ran wires straight through the internal panels, sealing with hot melt glue.

If the internal panels are already glued in place you can easily drill the required holes though all panels with a bellhanger drill bit.

I've been almost exclusively using single strand of #24 wire on all FR builds for years now, and considering the very short length of direct path to the driver in these particular designs, I honestly don't see any advantage of heavier wire/cable. The lighter wire certainly makes for much easier (solder) connection to the speaker terminals.

zman01 28th April 2011 06:06 PM

Chrisb,

You are referring to the stuff pictured here:

Bare Copper #24 awg - Electrical Wire and Cable

Single strand of Cat5 will work?

Regards,
Zia

planet10 28th April 2011 06:11 PM

Single Strand of Cat5 would have insulation which is a practical advantage.

dave

CastleJohn 28th April 2011 07:04 PM

You surprise me. 24AWG is thin for an 8 ohm circuit path. Have you actually tried anything fatter? I've never failed to hear an improvement in sound when increasing the thickness of amplifier or speaker cables. An 18 inch length is not insignificant. In my amps I use 16SWG (15AWG) if I can fit it in. And I'm also surprised that you use solder. I've always found that tightly screwed terminations sound better. Have you tried that?

planet10 28th April 2011 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CastleJohn (Post 2554749)
Have you actually tried anything fatter? I've never failed to hear an improvement in sound when increasing the thickness of amplifier or speaker cables.

Oh yes. I have 10 & 12 g (and more stored downstairs). With FRs things kept better & better as cable got thinner (and solid better than stranded). Thinner than CAT5 gets impractical.

Speaker cable is very system dependent.

BTW. Do make sure that the terminals are arranged so that you can change wire.

Don't take our word for it. Try it yourself.

dave

Bob Brines 28th April 2011 08:53 PM

Perhaps CastleJohn is used to pushing 100's of watts rather than 1/2w average, 10w peak. At 100w, 24ga would be a bit small, but run the numbers with 24ga and 10w. For a 6' cable into 8Ω, you will get a drop of ~0.65dB. You will never here it.

Bob

chrisb 28th April 2011 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CastleJohn (Post 2554749)
You surprise me. 24AWG is thin for an 8 ohm circuit path. Have you actually tried anything fatter? I've never failed to hear an improvement in sound when increasing the thickness of amplifier or speaker cables. An 18 inch length is not insignificant. In my amps I use 16SWG (15AWG) if I can fit it in. And I'm also surprised that you use solder. I've always found that tightly screwed terminations sound better. Have you tried that?


to echo what Dave noted, a brief personal anecdote:

Over 20 yrs ago I owned a small Linn based system that included Kheilidh speakers bi-wired with 10ft of K400 cable. Approx 10 yrs later, in my early days of DIY craziness, I read about Chris Van Haus' magic recipe for DIY with CAT5 cable;
DIY Cat5 Speaker Cables

After spending quite a few hours stripping and braiding cable and terminating with 4mm banana plugs, my first impression upon plugging in the completely fresh wire was - "Holy crap, that (tight / articulate bass, soundstage dimension/depth, midrange clarity) was missing before?" Even though 10yrs old at the time, I was able to trade the cable back in for credit on other used gear.

It gets better

Once you trip down the rabbit hole of internet / DIY audio forums and start trying some of the tricks that conventional wisdom suggests "can't work / make a difference .. " or have the opportunity to hear things at get togethers like VSAC, RMAF,, it becomes far easier to take leaps of faith that have low cost of admittance.

After reading some real lunatics waxing rhapsodically over connecting their flea watt SET amps and FR drivers with wire as thin as #32 magnet wire, it didn't take long to try a single pair of CAT5 conductors for both UTP interconnects and speaker cables.

Less can be more - even more transparent than a braided 12 conductor snake, not much more than pennies a foot, and easy to solder. Since most of the small full range drivers and all the speaker terminals that I tend to use have small contact points best suited to either solder or crimps (that actually entail an extra physical connection), the soldering makes most sense. If it (solder) is good enough for PTP wiring of a tube amp with well over +400V DC B+, I figure it's good enough for the 3 or 4 watts average power going into the speaker.



Yes, I've listened to $200,000 systems ( Linn / AudioNote / and too much crazy stuff at shows) in which the sales tax for a bi-wire set alone costs more than my entire current system ( AudioNote Sogon), but I'd be hard pressed to attribute the cabling's contribution to what I can hear but never afford.

CastleJohn 29th April 2011 11:29 AM

This is very interesting. I suspect the reason why thinner wires could sound better is the same reason that a lower damping factor can sound better. I understand the Fostex FE126 benefits from having an amp with a lower damping factor (though as an electronics engineer I would prefer to refer to this as a higher output impedance) so it is perhaps no surprise that additional resistance in series with the speaker can improve the sound. Has anyone actually tried using a more substantial additional series resistance, such as 1 ohm resistor? That would be interesting. The idea is that it would let the speaker cone move more easily in the way that it wants to, absorbing the back emf produced by the coil in a way that has less effect on its motion. The science sounds plausible but has anyone tried it?


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