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Old 23rd April 2011, 10:53 PM   #1
BGordon is offline BGordon  United States
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Default DIY speaker for TA2020 t-amp in small space

I picked up a TA2020 T-amp recently for a setup in side of small travel trailer. It's an old 14' 1948 Boles Aero "canned ham" style trailer that I'm turning into a studio space. The interior space is very open rather than filled with cabinets as in the factory design. The interior is about is about 14' long, 6.5' wide and 6' tall - very small

I picked up a T-Amp for its price, quality of sound, size, and power consumption. The power consumption is quite important as I intend to operate off the grid.

I've been moving through the process of finding speakers to fit the application and picked up a pair of Realistic Minimus 1s. They have a really nice build quality and aesthetic, but leave me wanting a lot more on the lower end.

I'm building out the interior of the trailer and would like to build the speakers as well. I've got a friend who is a woodworker/furniture builder that I've done trade with, so can get help fabricating a cabinet. I'm also interested in a DIY speaker so I can build out a cabinet that aesthetically fits the space: a bit vintage, very minimal, spatially efficient.

I've looked through a number of designs and was interested in a bookshelf size speaker. I first started looking at two-ways but have since become interested in a full-range (what about coaxial??) driver. The fidelity, efficiency, and simplicity of the full range appeal to me. I would like to spend around $100-$150 sans cabinets. I would like to have something that reaches down into the lower range, but it appears to me that bass may be a sacrifice for size, amp power, clarity.

Here are a few of the designs that have caught my attention:

Two-Way:
C-Killa:C-Killa 2 Way Shielded Speaker
Amythest Micro Monitor: Amethyst Micro Monitor
Karma Indignia: Parts Express DIY Project

Full-Range:
The Fonkens: Meet the Fonkens
Fostex FE 167 bass reflex cabinet: DIY Audio Projects - Hi-Fi Blog for DIY Audiophiles: Fostex FE167E Bass Reflex Speakers


The Fonkens stretch the budget a little bit, but looks like an amazing design. I did notice that the drivers are hard to get now. I'm looking for input on design/drivers/two-way v. full range. I really enjoy a wide soundscape, clarity, imaging, over volume, bass. Thanks!
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Old 24th April 2011, 06:19 PM   #2
BGordon is offline BGordon  United States
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The MarkAudio CHR-70 and CHP-70 drivers are drawing my attention too.

Does anyone have experience with these in a similar setup. One concern is their efficiency paired with this little amp. Thanks.
-Blake
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Old 25th April 2011, 01:20 AM   #3
Tom V is offline Tom V  United States
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I am using the CHR-70 in a 10 liter bass reflex cabinet for near field speakers for my computer. They are driven by a Sure Electronics TA2024 T-Amp and are plenty loud enough. I haven't tried to drive them really hard, so I don't know if you can listen to Jack Flash at concert levels, but for civilized listening they should do just fine.

-Tom-
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Old 25th April 2011, 01:49 AM   #4
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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this guy might be worth looking at:

http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeaker...map-231009.pdf


great performance from a compact box well suited to small rooms and bookshelf installations


the CHP/EL70 does work particularly well in the larger prime *ken enclosure, but that might not be as well suited to the described application
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Old 26th April 2011, 06:09 AM   #5
BGordon is offline BGordon  United States
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I'm between the CHP-70 and the EL70. I think the paper cone will be better suited for the t-amp. I have been able to figure out the difference between these two drivers though. It seems like the EL70 is a precursor to the CHP-70, though the CHP-70 is noticeable more expensive. How new is the CHP-70? Is it readily available? Any timeframe?

As far as cabinets, the design you linked to looks good. I could go a step up in size to get a little more sound out of it. The shape of the wide baffle Golden Rectangle appeals to me as well. Given similar size, is there a discernable audio difference between an Marken, GR, and BR?

Thanks for the input. The forums have been a wealth of information. I've been reading up on a lot of posts that have you (Chris) and Dave sharing your knowledge.
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Old 26th April 2011, 03:39 PM   #6
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGordon View Post
I'm between the CHP-70 and the EL70. I think the paper cone will be better suited for the t-amp. I have been able to figure out the difference between these two drivers though. It seems like the EL70 is a precursor to the CHP-70, though the CHP-70 is noticeable more expensive. How new is the CHP-70? Is it readily available? Any timeframe?
I'd probably agree with regards to the compatibility with T-amp - I generally find paper more forgiving, and even the best metal very analytical.

EL70 is one of several of Mark's OEM products, in this case for Bob Reimer at CSS in Abbotsford BC.

AFAIK the CHP70 is not currently distributed directly in NA, but I'll certainly stand for correction on that.

Whatever differences the T/S between the two, I'd opine that either would work more than satisfactorily enough in enclosures "intended" for the other.

Quote:
As far as cabinets, the design you linked to looks good. I could go a step up in size to get a little more sound out of it. The shape of the wide baffle Golden Rectangle appeals to me as well. Given similar size, is there a discernable audio difference between an Marken, GR, and BR?
I've not yet heard the CHP70, and as best as I recall, the only BR enclosure in which I've heard the EL70 was a dual driver configuration* of Bob's in Parts Express (curved) 2 piece box. These enclosures are certainly an affordable option for folks with no access to construction, and have pretty cosmetics, but are not the best sounding around. The corners of the laminated MDF are also quite fragile.

If your space permits and the more complicated build of the Marken design isn't too daunting, they surpass the GR in terms of imaging, finesse of articulation from upper mid-bass downwards, and what I'd describe as "disappearing". Either design definitely surpass conventional round ported BR of nominally the same volume/tuning in which I've heard several other drivers, from Fostex FE127E to Jordan JX92.

If contemplating the far more time consuming Marken build, I'd highly recommend using only high quality plywood ( Baltic Birch, ApplePly, EuroPly etc.)
Quote:

Thanks for the input. The forums have been a wealth of information. I've been reading up on a lot of posts that have you (Chris) and Dave sharing your knowledge.
that's what community is all about


edit:
* Speaking of dual EL70s - I've been working on a "small" home reno project (oxymoron), and my wife & I were doing some painting in different rooms last night, so we had the music fired up "somewhat" louder than the normal background levels she likes, listening to a net-streaming radio station playing progressive ambient/new age instrumental (lots of big drums/percussion/synthed bass). Castle Micro-towers driven by EL84 P/P (15Watts) - stunning the bass these things can produce
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Last edited by chrisb; 26th April 2011 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 26th April 2011, 03:45 PM   #7
mor2bz is offline mor2bz  United States
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infinite baffle vented to the outside. double up on fullrange drivers to get the
impedance down to 4 ohms and to keep the efficiency up.

to hell with imaging in your ham can.
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Old 26th April 2011, 06:04 PM   #8
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mor2bz View Post
infinite baffle vented to the outside. double up on fullrange drivers to get the
impedance down to 4 ohms and to keep the efficiency up.

to hell with imaging in your ham can.

CHP/EL70 are 4 ohm drivers, so it would likely be safer to the amp to series if using 2 (at least that's what I did)

In any case in as small an acoustic space as described, maximizing sensitivity/efficiency is probably less important that the enclosure's size/form factor, in which case something as compact as the Radio Shack Minimus or MarKel recommended could still be a better bet. Angle mounted in corners in a small space, these would develop adequate bass and SPLs for most folks.

Let BGordon decide whether imaging can be written off so blithely.
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Old 26th April 2011, 07:40 PM   #9
BGordon is offline BGordon  United States
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I agree that the space might not be the best acoustically for a flat hi-fi experience. I'm hoping to be able get some high quality out of near field listening and then the space itself should be able to fill with sound without too much trouble.

I picked it up gutted and am slowly designing/building out the interior without regard to the factory configuration. So the idea is to continue that small scale, high quality, simplicity to the speakers - a bit for fun, but they will be a nice touch.

I picked up a pair of Minimus 1's locally which are really nice and sound pretty good in the space. A little lacking on the low end though. As I have a lot of parameters to work with, I'm taking this as an opportunity for a first build. I did look at some open baffle setups, but I need something that might get bumped every now and then.
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Old 26th April 2011, 08:07 PM   #10
mor2bz is offline mor2bz  United States
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"CHP/EL70 are 4 ohm drivers, so it would likely be safer to the amp to series if using 2 (at least that's what I did)"

I was not recommending those drivers. I was recommending wiring two eight ohm drivers in parallel.

I stand on my recommendation for infintite baffle, and we shall both have to let BGordon decide what he will.

Sorry if my opinion differed from yours.

Sure hope he doesn't get into clipping that amp; they clip HARD.
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