>>> Yes, any hint of sibilance is gone, but at what price.
Strangely enough, i find nowadays a hint of sibilance no longer bothers me. Too much and it does. If i had the choice i would rather do without it but NOT at the expense of the overall sound.
I looked at the charts again and am surprised at the difference the tweaks make. The upper frequencies are certainly different! I did not expect them to be as ragged as the original 'virgin' driver.
I don't modify expensive drivers. I guess we all have to make a decision as to what is expensive to us since we all have different budgets. The Fostex 166 is something i'd choose to leave 'as is' or perhaps try the removable 98 cent tweak. I feel bad about what happened.
Thanks Leon for posting your subjective listening results.
Strangely enough, i find nowadays a hint of sibilance no longer bothers me. Too much and it does. If i had the choice i would rather do without it but NOT at the expense of the overall sound.
I looked at the charts again and am surprised at the difference the tweaks make. The upper frequencies are certainly different! I did not expect them to be as ragged as the original 'virgin' driver.
I don't modify expensive drivers. I guess we all have to make a decision as to what is expensive to us since we all have different budgets. The Fostex 166 is something i'd choose to leave 'as is' or perhaps try the removable 98 cent tweak. I feel bad about what happened.
Thanks Leon for posting your subjective listening results.
Thank's Zilla for the correct term : "98 cents tweak".
Couldn't find it in my memeory at the time of posting.
2 out of 4 people now do use a FT17H ( 1,8oHm , 2,2~1 uF) in combination with the FE166En
The other 2 only use some foam : around 3 pieces 1cmx 1cm and a sligtly oversized square piece inside the whizzer. This is special open foam ; you can breath throuh it!!
Couldn't find it in my memeory at the time of posting.
2 out of 4 people now do use a FT17H ( 1,8oHm , 2,2~1 uF) in combination with the FE166En
The other 2 only use some foam : around 3 pieces 1cmx 1cm and a sligtly oversized square piece inside the whizzer. This is special open foam ; you can breath throuh it!!
Can't speak to the modge podge portion, I have never attempted to treat speakers with that material, though I have used straight PVA on literally hundreds of drivers, working for Nestorovic Labs.
I have to agree with the way too bright and in your face comment about the 126, but my opinion covers treated and untreated 126's. I really do not understand why Fostex deleted the 127 and left the 126. I have a pair of 127's, with the full Dave treatment, and three extra ring sets that come from the "tap test" advancement. The drivers are incredibly smooth, lively and colorful, with not a single shriek from any of Jessica Williams piano notes and her playing will find them. I have attached the modified 126 / 127 pattern guide, you really should use it on those 126's. They will still be bright and in your face, but at least it should kill the painful ear zings. I have treated a few pairs of 126's and I really did not like them, at all.
Bob, is there some way I can get involved with this 166 problem? Maybe you can send the drivers here and allow me to fiddle about with them?
Bud
I suppose I could send them to you. They are of no value to me.
I don't think that doping the main cone is the problem. The disaster occurs around and above the frequency I would expect the dome and whizzer take over. It would require sacrificing several drivers to confirm, but I suspect that this is one driver that you don't want to dope the whizzer and you done want to remove the dome/dust cap. The dust cap is horn loaded by the whizzer. Other than the ringing around 12k, there is no HF output on my modified driver.
Bob
Perhaps you should send them to me. I have been worrying at this whizzer cone issue for a while now and the last three pairs done were musically very useful. I would be happy to treat a pair of new ones for you too if you like.
The real issue with them appears to be some form of Raleigh wave at both ends of the small cone. I am used to finding and treating these on cones larger than 5 inches actual outside diameter. The same process used there also works on the whizzer. I will provide you with whatever I can discover and an untreated pair will show where you can get to. I will be happy to purchase the untreated pair should I not understand what they need and mess them up.
Do please PM me and I will provide an email so we can plan.
Bud
The real issue with them appears to be some form of Raleigh wave at both ends of the small cone. I am used to finding and treating these on cones larger than 5 inches actual outside diameter. The same process used there also works on the whizzer. I will provide you with whatever I can discover and an untreated pair will show where you can get to. I will be happy to purchase the untreated pair should I not understand what they need and mess them up.
Do please PM me and I will provide an email so we can plan.
Bud
Bud
I actually put all those ring sets on the 126en,
you had already sent the pdf files to me a few weeks back,I don't know what is going on
with these drivers,maybe I need to go with
a warming sounding driver all together.
I had the old 126e I did 2 coats of mod podge
and the tri foil pattern and used them for
maybe 3 or 4 years they seemed to be much smoother not in your face,actually they sounded
amazing in the set of Saburo's I built.
wishing I still had those.
I actually put all those ring sets on the 126en,
you had already sent the pdf files to me a few weeks back,I don't know what is going on
with these drivers,maybe I need to go with
a warming sounding driver all together.
I had the old 126e I did 2 coats of mod podge
and the tri foil pattern and used them for
maybe 3 or 4 years they seemed to be much smoother not in your face,actually they sounded
amazing in the set of Saburo's I built.
wishing I still had those.
Scott,
Please post a picture of your application, it will give people some important context to your results.
dave
Thanks for the picture Scott. Brave of you and I appreciate that. May I ask what order the various materials went down in? You haven't got the pattern sequences quite right and while they honestly would do a good enough job on normal speakers, the 126's are far from that. Even with a meticulously correct spacing on all of the pattern blocks, for all of the rows, that speaker is always trying to get loose and attack.
If you applied the modge podge first and haven't put much gloss coat on over the patterns, we can probably recover the drivers. It looks as though you did not have the proper size of pen tips for the inner ring patterns and unless you used a clear flat for the mid cone rings, the strong resonance peaks on the 126 are not addressed with what I see. Again, for most drivers you could get away with not applying these, and in the early applications pattern sheets for the 126/ 127 those mid cone patterns were not included.
If you want to, you can send the drivers to me and I can do what is possible in a remedial sense. I should be able to get them to a listenable level, even if all I do is to apply the correct patterns in needed places with stealth paint, over what you have already done. This is an entirely workable solution by the way. I may be able to do more, but I haven't enough information about exactly what and in which order, you performed the operations.
I would prefer to do the work and have you go back over the tutorials, look through the pictures on the Picassa site and get hold of some cheap speakers to use in getting your hand skill set up to the level needed for a driver as touchy as this one is. I am quite certain you are capable of doing the needed level of diligence, but you may have just bitten off more than you realized in this instance. I do applaud you courage in doing do, however.
I have attached a text file covering most of the important EnABL threads for learning purposes, and invite you to look closely at what the Picassa pictures show. EnABL has made some big strides, based upon George Soon's work and the stout position taken by dlr and John K in particular, and your drivers should be salvageable with the application of those advanced understandings.
Bud
If you applied the modge podge first and haven't put much gloss coat on over the patterns, we can probably recover the drivers. It looks as though you did not have the proper size of pen tips for the inner ring patterns and unless you used a clear flat for the mid cone rings, the strong resonance peaks on the 126 are not addressed with what I see. Again, for most drivers you could get away with not applying these, and in the early applications pattern sheets for the 126/ 127 those mid cone patterns were not included.
If you want to, you can send the drivers to me and I can do what is possible in a remedial sense. I should be able to get them to a listenable level, even if all I do is to apply the correct patterns in needed places with stealth paint, over what you have already done. This is an entirely workable solution by the way. I may be able to do more, but I haven't enough information about exactly what and in which order, you performed the operations.
I would prefer to do the work and have you go back over the tutorials, look through the pictures on the Picassa site and get hold of some cheap speakers to use in getting your hand skill set up to the level needed for a driver as touchy as this one is. I am quite certain you are capable of doing the needed level of diligence, but you may have just bitten off more than you realized in this instance. I do applaud you courage in doing do, however.
I have attached a text file covering most of the important EnABL threads for learning purposes, and invite you to look closely at what the Picassa pictures show. EnABL has made some big strides, based upon George Soon's work and the stout position taken by dlr and John K in particular, and your drivers should be salvageable with the application of those advanced understandings.
Bud
Another "removable mod" is the basket treatment. Shouldn't have any harm on the drivers anyway. Tried with 3M foam tape, may not be a big improvement, but won't harm anyway. I am not so sure about playing dough though, seems a bit too messy to me. Some tried to stiffen the basket but I guess that may also make the resonance of the basket more prominent.
Bud
Thanks for the feedback,
this is the order I used
2 coats of Mod podge
enable process
3 very thin coats of micro gloss.
they don't sound bad at all,
just to in your face.
and I can't seem to get for instance
a vocalist to come right to the center of the room
and float like normal with full range driver's
no matter what speaker placement,which seems a little strange to me,I am using them in Frugel horn 3.
Thanks for the feedback,
this is the order I used
2 coats of Mod podge
enable process
3 very thin coats of micro gloss.
they don't sound bad at all,
just to in your face.
and I can't seem to get for instance
a vocalist to come right to the center of the room
and float like normal with full range driver's
no matter what speaker placement,which seems a little strange to me,I am using them in Frugel horn 3.
Scott - I think the "in your face" aspects of dynamics and image presentation you're noticing is an attribute of the FE126E/n that some would consider its major advantage over other widebanders of approx same size, such as the F120A / FX120, and certainly the late FE127E.
I'm not one of them - as impressive as the 126 can be initially, I found the earlier version more than a bit fatiguing over longer exposures.
I'm not one of them - as impressive as the 126 can be initially, I found the earlier version more than a bit fatiguing over longer exposures.
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