Hi guys,
I am going to order a pair of Tangband's W4-1337SD titanium cone full range drivers and I plan to run them full range i.e. no aiding tweeter or woofer.
The problem is there's a peak from 10kHz all the way up to 20kHz in Tangband's published graph and from other measurements I've seen (e.g. John a.k.a Zaphaudio) there's also a rising from 6kHz onwards.
I am pretty frustrated by that peak but I still want to give those drivers a try, which filters should I try? Should I give them a single inductor to roll off the rising response or something like an L-R trap or series notch filter?
Regards,
Boris
I am going to order a pair of Tangband's W4-1337SD titanium cone full range drivers and I plan to run them full range i.e. no aiding tweeter or woofer.
The problem is there's a peak from 10kHz all the way up to 20kHz in Tangband's published graph and from other measurements I've seen (e.g. John a.k.a Zaphaudio) there's also a rising from 6kHz onwards.
I am pretty frustrated by that peak but I still want to give those drivers a try, which filters should I try? Should I give them a single inductor to roll off the rising response or something like an L-R trap or series notch filter?
Regards,
Boris
You need a notch filter, the one shown is a variation, I use a resistor, inductor and capacitor in parallel(in another driver). To do it yourself you need to measure the rising bump and design a notch to compensate.
Hi guys, I managed to get a clearer official response graph, so the problem should be more visible now. If I opt for a single inductor, I may be losing much of the SPL above 15kHz in order to get a flatter response, and if I use an L-R trap to get rid of the broad yet abrupt peak at 10kHz to 20kHz, the rising response from 6kHz onwards will not be solved.
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hm, thanks for pointing that out. To most grown ups it's not an annoying problem, but I am still quite sensitive to high frequencies.
I just can't bear the 15kHz noise that CRT TV generates, so I guess the 10dB bump will give me pretty unpleasant experience.
I understand your point on the off axis, but I guess I can have moderate amount of toe in...
I just can't bear the 15kHz noise that CRT TV generates, so I guess the 10dB bump will give me pretty unpleasant experience.
I understand your point on the off axis, but I guess I can have moderate amount of toe in...
hm, by the way the w4-1320 is a paper cone and seems to have more gentle breakup than the w4-1337sd so no wonder you do not need filters of any sort.
I wanted to try the bamboo cone too, but I like how the titanium cone looks and the area I'v living in is very humid so I do not want the cone to soften in spring and sound different, depending on seasons.
I wanted to try the bamboo cone too, but I like how the titanium cone looks and the area I'v living in is very humid so I do not want the cone to soften in spring and sound different, depending on seasons.
Hi IG, of course that makes sense, but this time I am trying to order a pair of completed speaker from Tangband instead of getting my hands dirty (they seem to be collaborating with some cabinet manufacturers and I may be able to get some pretty high gloss cabinets through them), so ordering a pair of the raw drivers is far from the best idea for me.
Hello,
Als alternativer Fronttreiber kann auch der TB W4 1337 SA eingesetzt werden,
gerade für ältere Semester, ist der Hochtonanstieg über 10 kHz akustisch unbedeutend,
kommt aber dem alternden Hörvermögen entgegen.
you read on the measuremnts of the Kornett:
kornettmess
Als alternativer Fronttreiber kann auch der TB W4 1337 SA eingesetzt werden,
gerade für ältere Semester, ist der Hochtonanstieg über 10 kHz akustisch unbedeutend,
kommt aber dem alternden Hörvermögen entgegen.
you read on the measuremnts of the Kornett:
kornettmess
I came up with an idea but I am not sure it's really a good idea.
I think I can use an inductor to roll off anything from 6kHz onwards and apply a notch filter to get rid of the peak from 10kHz to 15kHz. Will that work? I will end up with a total of 6 components (hopefully), including the BSC.
I think I can use an inductor to roll off anything from 6kHz onwards and apply a notch filter to get rid of the peak from 10kHz to 15kHz. Will that work? I will end up with a total of 6 components (hopefully), including the BSC.
I think an inductor will make you lose too much extreme top-end if chosen for such a low -3dB point. I just think you should not worry too much about a manufacturer published frequency response. I don't know about TB, but most of the time, I'd not put too much money on what they show us, although some companies give pretty accurate measurements. Actually listening to it and possibly allowing for a "break-in" period will show you how it actually behaves and if measures are to be taken to tame a peak.
Good luck!
IG
Hi IG, that's what I am worrying about too. I have seen John's (aka Zaph Audio) measurements as well, and it seems like the measurements all point out there's a broad peak in the top octave ie 10kHz-20kHz and it's almost 10dB higher than the avg. It seems like a breakup mode at somewhere around 10kHz that had caused the problem.
>>> but since I am just 19, I am sure it will bother me.
I've been following this thread but not sure how to appropriately contribute to it. I have heard the 3" titanium TB and think it's a nice driver. It offers a lot of detail and does sound larger and go deeper than other 3" drivers i've heard. I'd call it a really good product. TB does a nice job and offers good value. I have several of their products and never felt let down. Having said that... each of their products has a 'house sound' (they sound similar) but depending on the materials used, or other factors that differentiate each of them, they each have their own character.
Personally, i prefer using full range drivers without crossovers or circuits... to my ears these impediments suck the life out of the music. Therefore, my opinion is to cross it over 'naturally' via the box it's in... a sealed box of a certain volume will reduce output at a certain frequency... then blend in your sub... a ported box... a back horn... open baffle, etc. Let the driver express itself!
IMO the titanium differed from the 3" aluminum and paper TBs i have by offering a sweeter sound that was more detailed and lively. The top end had some zing as indicated by the charts but i'd not call it bothersome, rather part of the drivers overall character. If the 4" titanium is similar i don't believe you will be annoyed by this but you will be aware of it for sure. Perhaps you will like it this way?
Adding circuits to filter out a rising response (at the tippy top in this instance) will negatively effect the rest of this drivers ability to perform at it's highest level... but that's just one man's opinion and i don't claim to be the last word on this.
I've been following this thread but not sure how to appropriately contribute to it. I have heard the 3" titanium TB and think it's a nice driver. It offers a lot of detail and does sound larger and go deeper than other 3" drivers i've heard. I'd call it a really good product. TB does a nice job and offers good value. I have several of their products and never felt let down. Having said that... each of their products has a 'house sound' (they sound similar) but depending on the materials used, or other factors that differentiate each of them, they each have their own character.
Personally, i prefer using full range drivers without crossovers or circuits... to my ears these impediments suck the life out of the music. Therefore, my opinion is to cross it over 'naturally' via the box it's in... a sealed box of a certain volume will reduce output at a certain frequency... then blend in your sub... a ported box... a back horn... open baffle, etc. Let the driver express itself!
IMO the titanium differed from the 3" aluminum and paper TBs i have by offering a sweeter sound that was more detailed and lively. The top end had some zing as indicated by the charts but i'd not call it bothersome, rather part of the drivers overall character. If the 4" titanium is similar i don't believe you will be annoyed by this but you will be aware of it for sure. Perhaps you will like it this way?
Adding circuits to filter out a rising response (at the tippy top in this instance) will negatively effect the rest of this drivers ability to perform at it's highest level... but that's just one man's opinion and i don't claim to be the last word on this.
I checked out Zaph's measurements and there is indeed a rise above ~7khz. I would not worry too much about it until I hear it. Where the FR is up by many dB's, not much fundamental content should be found, at least for acoustic-based music, so it will only alter some harmonic content, thus giving it's "sound signature" to music. Nothing wrong with that, but it's a subjective thing at the end of the day.
If you find this rise/peak makes some music unlistenable, you could try a small series inductor and see if it fits the bill. I'd start with ~0.2mH, should give f3 around 10kHz, where the response is already up by a few dB's. Adjust to taste.
Godzilla - Thanks for a review from a listener of the driver, we've only been talking hypothetical here so far!
IG
If you find this rise/peak makes some music unlistenable, you could try a small series inductor and see if it fits the bill. I'd start with ~0.2mH, should give f3 around 10kHz, where the response is already up by a few dB's. Adjust to taste.
Godzilla - Thanks for a review from a listener of the driver, we've only been talking hypothetical here so far!
IG
Hi guys,
Thanks a lot for your inputs. I am pretty sure Tangband makes some pretty awesome drivers, and I am aware that the titanium W4s are one of those.
The peak above 10kHz is indeed not going to affect anything in the mid range, but I am aware something that much may produce some serious sibilance which may make the speakers sound exciting and sparkling in the short run, but I guess it would be annoying in the long run, especially for a guy like me who listens to almost everything from Marvin Gaye to Mariah Carey, from Beatles to Bee Gees.
The problem in the W4 seems to be more serious than the W3 IMO... The peak is steeper and earlier and as IG found out, starts earlier at somewhere around 7kHz.
Seems like everyone advices me to not to use correction circuits of any kind, maybe I should compromise between filterless, lively sound and filtered, polite sound by using a single inductor instead of a more elaborated circuit. After all it's better to have lively sound than dull and lifeless sound. 0.2mH seems like a decent start, thanks for your suggestion, IG.
There's a last resort: I can have an external "equalization" circuit to get it right if the inductor's still not enough. But the problem is it's hard to find good components here in Hong Kong.
Before I forget, I must thank Godzilla for his detailed listening review for the titanium drivers and his kind suggestion. It's really helpful.
Thanks a lot for your inputs. I am pretty sure Tangband makes some pretty awesome drivers, and I am aware that the titanium W4s are one of those.
The peak above 10kHz is indeed not going to affect anything in the mid range, but I am aware something that much may produce some serious sibilance which may make the speakers sound exciting and sparkling in the short run, but I guess it would be annoying in the long run, especially for a guy like me who listens to almost everything from Marvin Gaye to Mariah Carey, from Beatles to Bee Gees.
The problem in the W4 seems to be more serious than the W3 IMO... The peak is steeper and earlier and as IG found out, starts earlier at somewhere around 7kHz.
Seems like everyone advices me to not to use correction circuits of any kind, maybe I should compromise between filterless, lively sound and filtered, polite sound by using a single inductor instead of a more elaborated circuit. After all it's better to have lively sound than dull and lifeless sound. 0.2mH seems like a decent start, thanks for your suggestion, IG.
There's a last resort: I can have an external "equalization" circuit to get it right if the inductor's still not enough. But the problem is it's hard to find good components here in Hong Kong.
Before I forget, I must thank Godzilla for his detailed listening review for the titanium drivers and his kind suggestion. It's really helpful.
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