Hi guys,
I'd really appreciate some advice regarding my upcoming full range speaker build. I've always been fascinated by the idea of a full range speaker system and as I've recently moved country and have absolutely no kit, this seems like the perfect opportunity.
Amplification will be via a hifimediy T2. Source is still to be decided, but will probably be a TDA1543 NOS Dac with a Sony DVD player as source (as it's free - I want to build a Shigaclone soon).
From everything I've read, I'm really keen on the BIB design. It looks like the perfect example for my first speaker project and seems to get absolutely fantastic results. A credit to it's designer!
I am a little bit limited with local driver availability so I've narrowed it down to the following choice:
Visatron BG-20 $88
Fostex FE166En $205
Fostex FE206En $270
Now I'm interested in the BG-20 as it seems to be quite well regarded in Europe, but from everything I've seen doesn't really make for a reasonably sized BIB. How much flexability is there for the box dimensions? Am I silly to dismiss this? Any other easy enclosures that suit it?
Now, onto the main question -166 or 206? From everything I've read it looks like the 206En is the best choice, but in what regards does the 166 beat the 206?
Many thanks
Mark
I'd really appreciate some advice regarding my upcoming full range speaker build. I've always been fascinated by the idea of a full range speaker system and as I've recently moved country and have absolutely no kit, this seems like the perfect opportunity.
Amplification will be via a hifimediy T2. Source is still to be decided, but will probably be a TDA1543 NOS Dac with a Sony DVD player as source (as it's free - I want to build a Shigaclone soon).
From everything I've read, I'm really keen on the BIB design. It looks like the perfect example for my first speaker project and seems to get absolutely fantastic results. A credit to it's designer!
I am a little bit limited with local driver availability so I've narrowed it down to the following choice:
Visatron BG-20 $88
Fostex FE166En $205
Fostex FE206En $270
Now I'm interested in the BG-20 as it seems to be quite well regarded in Europe, but from everything I've seen doesn't really make for a reasonably sized BIB. How much flexability is there for the box dimensions? Am I silly to dismiss this? Any other easy enclosures that suit it?
Now, onto the main question -166 or 206? From everything I've read it looks like the 206En is the best choice, but in what regards does the 166 beat the 206?
Many thanks
Mark
In my opinion, none. It does have more "brilliance" to the sound and some like that.
Before you nominate a short list of drivers as large as the 206, give some consideration to your room and the floor space / placement vis a vis boundaries and primary listening positions pertinent to their use in BIB or any of larger horn family.
Regarding the drivers themselves, there'd probably be a consensus that the 166 / 168 series could probably suit most folks without the need for tweeters, but that the 206/208 et al would benefit or absolutely require them. With any of the better quality tweeters usually incorporated in such systems (such as the FT90A or above in the Fostex line) this can substantially increase driver costs.
Regarding the drivers themselves, there'd probably be a consensus that the 166 / 168 series could probably suit most folks without the need for tweeters, but that the 206/208 et al would benefit or absolutely require them. With any of the better quality tweeters usually incorporated in such systems (such as the FT90A or above in the Fostex line) this can substantially increase driver costs.
Commited:
I've been in same situation. Moved country and was looking for some easy to build, good sounding speaker project. I got hold of 168E Sigma drivers from Japan for very good price (€120 a piece). I've build the BIB from very cheap wood (chipboard, rubbish). I have to say, never heard better speaker and that's with this mediocre wood. I can't imagine with proper BB. I recommend this driver to anyone who wants good single source performance, with time they get better and better. Once I move home, I will build them the proper housing.
Highly recommend the 168 Sigma....looks good, sounds great, BIB works....
Danny
I've been in same situation. Moved country and was looking for some easy to build, good sounding speaker project. I got hold of 168E Sigma drivers from Japan for very good price (€120 a piece). I've build the BIB from very cheap wood (chipboard, rubbish). I have to say, never heard better speaker and that's with this mediocre wood. I can't imagine with proper BB. I recommend this driver to anyone who wants good single source performance, with time they get better and better. Once I move home, I will build them the proper housing.
Highly recommend the 168 Sigma....looks good, sounds great, BIB works....
Danny
Saturnus, thanks for your opinion. My only worry is that some larger drivers (non-full range) I've heard have sounded lazy but from everything I've read the FE206En's don't fall into this category.
Chrisb - normally I'd agree with you on the room front 100% but at the moment I have a lot of free time on my hands and we haven't found the place where we're going to live for the next few years. I would prefer to go without tweeters however and from what I'd read, the 208 seems to need a tweeter but the 206 can get away with it.
zman01 - what were the deciding factors for you to go with the FE166En? How is the bass?
Barackuda - thanks for your input. I don't want to go with more expensive materials as this is an experiment for me for now so I'll be building from chipboard too. I can't stretch to the expense of the 168 sigma as the 206En's are pushing it for me anyway!!
Chrisb - normally I'd agree with you on the room front 100% but at the moment I have a lot of free time on my hands and we haven't found the place where we're going to live for the next few years. I would prefer to go without tweeters however and from what I'd read, the 208 seems to need a tweeter but the 206 can get away with it.
zman01 - what were the deciding factors for you to go with the FE166En? How is the bass?
Barackuda - thanks for your input. I don't want to go with more expensive materials as this is an experiment for me for now so I'll be building from chipboard too. I can't stretch to the expense of the 168 sigma as the 206En's are pushing it for me anyway!!
What country did you transplant from?
If you are going to be moving about a bit, and budget is being stretched, why not consider the FE126En. I'd choose it over FE166 or FE206 any day because the music's heart is in the midrange. Also being best in an inverted BIB it is easier to get to work in different rooms, and, at least if built in plywood, dramatically easier to hump around (your back will thank you)
Now that hifimediy T2 amplifer. That is a lot of power for the Fostex. And off their website. "For 8 ohm speakers, we recommend the T1 amp" It is seriously cheap. With preferred 4 ohm loads, and that much power, you might consider EL70, CHP70 or CHR70 (3 colour schemes available). Love to see one of those in a BIB. (All local to Oz)
dave
If you are going to be moving about a bit, and budget is being stretched, why not consider the FE126En. I'd choose it over FE166 or FE206 any day because the music's heart is in the midrange. Also being best in an inverted BIB it is easier to get to work in different rooms, and, at least if built in plywood, dramatically easier to hump around (your back will thank you)
Now that hifimediy T2 amplifer. That is a lot of power for the Fostex. And off their website. "For 8 ohm speakers, we recommend the T1 amp" It is seriously cheap. With preferred 4 ohm loads, and that much power, you might consider EL70, CHP70 or CHR70 (3 colour schemes available). Love to see one of those in a BIB. (All local to Oz)
dave
Hi Dave,
Thanks for the informative post! I came from Ireland to Australia and left a lot of gear at home as it wasn't meant to be permanent. The budget isn't "stretched" exactly but I fell uncomfortable spending more than $300 on a pair of drivers that I don't get a chance to listen to! Building material first off will be chipboard as I can get it for next to nothing! You're obviously much more experienced in these things than I am. Will such a small driver deliver decent bass? The music I listen to is incredibly varied and when I have a decent system to listen to it becomes even more varied than normal! Most of it would be rock/indie/vocal/dance so I need a pretty versatile speaker.
Now, I hadn't considered anything smaller than 6.5" and I also hadn't found that site, so your post has opened more doors. Is an inverted BIB what it sounds like? I'd quite like that as I could have a cover over the top of the speaker. I assume an inverted BIB can be used with a 6.5" or 8" driver?
As I've said, the big problem here is that I can't just demo them and see what I like. Some background on what speakers I've liked in the past: B&W 602, B&W DM7Mk2, B&W 802 Matrix 3, System Audio SA1530, some of the KEF range and BBC Monitors.
As for the amp, I have had tripath amps in the past and really like them, that's why I wanted a TK2050 based amp as I've never had that chip. I see the T1 is powered by a different chip which I know nothing about! Why is the hifimediy amp recommended for 4ohms when the Sure and Dayton TK2050 based amps don't specify this?
Thanks for the informative post! I came from Ireland to Australia and left a lot of gear at home as it wasn't meant to be permanent. The budget isn't "stretched" exactly but I fell uncomfortable spending more than $300 on a pair of drivers that I don't get a chance to listen to! Building material first off will be chipboard as I can get it for next to nothing! You're obviously much more experienced in these things than I am. Will such a small driver deliver decent bass? The music I listen to is incredibly varied and when I have a decent system to listen to it becomes even more varied than normal! Most of it would be rock/indie/vocal/dance so I need a pretty versatile speaker.
Now, I hadn't considered anything smaller than 6.5" and I also hadn't found that site, so your post has opened more doors. Is an inverted BIB what it sounds like? I'd quite like that as I could have a cover over the top of the speaker. I assume an inverted BIB can be used with a 6.5" or 8" driver?
As I've said, the big problem here is that I can't just demo them and see what I like. Some background on what speakers I've liked in the past: B&W 602, B&W DM7Mk2, B&W 802 Matrix 3, System Audio SA1530, some of the KEF range and BBC Monitors.
As for the amp, I have had tripath amps in the past and really like them, that's why I wanted a TK2050 based amp as I've never had that chip. I see the T1 is powered by a different chip which I know nothing about! Why is the hifimediy amp recommended for 4ohms when the Sure and Dayton TK2050 based amps don't specify this?
Commited,
Fe166EN in the BIB is giving good bass after pushing them back to the wall and corner in my room. The bass is different from 3 way speaker bass I have previosuly expereinced. FE166EN in BIB bass quite tight and you can hear it clearly, and in my case it's there till 36 Hz (used a tone generator to check). But the bass does no have the typical slam or thud of a big 12" woofer... but I guess that's how the FR drivers behave. The sound from the midrange is very engaging and I fully agree with Dave, that's where the magic lies.
Dave, would the micro towers be a project worth considering for Commited??
-Zia
Fe166EN in the BIB is giving good bass after pushing them back to the wall and corner in my room. The bass is different from 3 way speaker bass I have previosuly expereinced. FE166EN in BIB bass quite tight and you can hear it clearly, and in my case it's there till 36 Hz (used a tone generator to check). But the bass does no have the typical slam or thud of a big 12" woofer... but I guess that's how the FR drivers behave. The sound from the midrange is very engaging and I fully agree with Dave, that's where the magic lies.
Dave, would the micro towers be a project worth considering for Commited??
-Zia
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The EL70 in particular is a bass monster. It might not move as much air as FExx6, but it goes lower. If you need to play load put a pair in each box... reports from those building bipole Metronomes are that subs are being removed). The driver is versatile and not overly amplifier fussy (which the Fostex are)
Flip it "upside down yes". And then you can use the alternate driver offset (which i understand has an edge on the standard one response wise -- not heightwise when used in a regular BIB.
I see no reason you couldn't invert a larger one, just have to worry about driver height
It will be different, and potentially an eye opener.
You'd have to ask them... may have something to do with the output LC filter... they really need to be tuned to the load.
dave
Thanks for the feedback! Would I be right in thinking that the smaller drivers in the BIB are a bit more room flexible and also supply a more lively sound?
I'm gathering from your enthusiasm about the driver that it's a pretty good "bang for your buck" then! I have read that someone got good results with the FR125's in a BIB with bass down to 40Hz. I'd imagine the speakers will go loud enough with the 50w available from the T2? I don't want my ears to bleed but it would be good to have a certain amount of flexibility.
How do the Mark Audio CHR-70 Mk1's compare? They're available as a pair for $99.
OK, I'll go and do a bit of research into the construction. I have read that you end up with the driver generally nearer the top of the speaker which sounds good to me aesthetically.
Does the opening on the bottom have to be a particular shape?
I don't doubt that for a second! I was in the realms of commercial speakers as I just didn't have the time or space to build some. Now I have both and no desire to spend big bucks on a compromise.
Spend the extra $30/pr.
Here is an example, based on the FE126/127 recommended BIB at the time.
http://p10hifi.net/tlinespeakers/FAL/downloads/iBIBk-FE12xe.pdf (i really should tidy up the line weights)
I put a carlson slot on the back -- the idea being to help minimize ripple. If i was actually to build it, i'd put half of the slot on the sides (at the back) and make them by drilling small holes to make the pattern. One could start out small and grow it as necessary,
dave
The Fostex Fe126's are the exact same price pretty much, with your experience, you'd lean towards the EL70s?
I must say that the idea of spending 1/2 as much and still being happy sounds appealing to me.
If I fire up google sketchup and do a rough design, would you be able to advise on the Carlton slot sizes?
I must say that the idea of spending 1/2 as much and still being happy sounds appealing to me.
If I fire up google sketchup and do a rough design, would you be able to advise on the Carlton slot sizes?
Ok, so I used the BIB calculator with a changed Zdriver value of .416 as recommended by Scottmoose. This has resulted in the driver pretty much exactly a metre from the ground which should work quite well as I'll add 25mm spikes to the bottom. This is a design for the EL70 driver.
Does the design look ok?
Does the design look ok?
Attachments
Excellent. That's great Dave, thanks.
One more question - would be Mark Audio Alpair 7 be worth the extra $50 or should I just stop finding different options and order something!
And I just noticed that I somehow used the wrong values for my design, so I'll give it another go now. Balls.
One more question - would be Mark Audio Alpair 7 be worth the extra $50 or should I just stop finding different options and order something!
And I just noticed that I somehow used the wrong values for my design, so I'll give it another go now. Balls.
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