I was looking for something smaller, but I really like this little horn for the FE126En plus price is too good to miss.
https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=8821
I searched the forum and found that some designs were bad, but could not tell if this was one them.
So, anybody tried this BLH? What were your findings?
Thanks,
Michael
https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=8821
I searched the forum and found that some designs were bad, but could not tell if this was one them.
So, anybody tried this BLH? What were your findings?
Thanks,
Michael
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IMO this design is one of Fostex's worst factory designs. We built it and were sadly dissapointed. If you get the fire hot enuff they burn well.
I'm working on a 4 litre bass reflex for this driver, probably doesn't go as low, but what bass it will produce i expect will be more satisfying.
If you want as small as possible, with some bass, the expanded Buschhorn Mk 1 (last page of the Frugel-Horn1 plans document). A bit bigger with better performance would be FH Mk1 Level 0, and a bit bigger than that (but simplier and higher performance) would be Frugel-Horn Mk3
dave
I'm working on a 4 litre bass reflex for this driver, probably doesn't go as low, but what bass it will produce i expect will be more satisfying.
If you want as small as possible, with some bass, the expanded Buschhorn Mk 1 (last page of the Frugel-Horn1 plans document). A bit bigger with better performance would be FH Mk1 Level 0, and a bit bigger than that (but simplier and higher performance) would be Frugel-Horn Mk3
dave
Thanks for the reply, Dave,
I now realize you’re the same Dave I was bugging on your Planet 10-hifi email address about FE127, 126, Audience A3, then Alpair 6M, etc. Maybe we should take the discussion here for the benefit of others.
To recap, I was initially looking (for my classical guitar practice) at the Audience A3 because the required cabinet can be so tiny. Talking with my wife, she said that’s a size she would gladly tolerate for TV. Well, in this case, I was thinking two A3’s per cabinet to make up for the relatively low SPL (82dB). But Audience A3 is out of stock. Which is a good thing because this gave me time to realize how much I was about to invest in 6 drivers. My guitar practice can wait for the A3’s, but now I got my wife hooked and want to finalize the TV speakers before she says we can live without. We hate the home theatre X.1 setup and for movies we only rely on the TV’s inner drivers, but many times we watch concerts and feel the need for some good speakers. Cost is not an issue, size is. That’s why I liked that 60 cm tall horn for the FE126, but if you say it’s fire material, I listen. What else is there that will do good bass in a small cabinet?
I like the small Fonken, but fear the matching driver is too small and won’t have enough power. On top of that, at this size, my wife would want them sitting on top of the book shelves. Does this make the situation worse?
Thanks a lot,
Michael
I now realize you’re the same Dave I was bugging on your Planet 10-hifi email address about FE127, 126, Audience A3, then Alpair 6M, etc. Maybe we should take the discussion here for the benefit of others.
To recap, I was initially looking (for my classical guitar practice) at the Audience A3 because the required cabinet can be so tiny. Talking with my wife, she said that’s a size she would gladly tolerate for TV. Well, in this case, I was thinking two A3’s per cabinet to make up for the relatively low SPL (82dB). But Audience A3 is out of stock. Which is a good thing because this gave me time to realize how much I was about to invest in 6 drivers. My guitar practice can wait for the A3’s, but now I got my wife hooked and want to finalize the TV speakers before she says we can live without. We hate the home theatre X.1 setup and for movies we only rely on the TV’s inner drivers, but many times we watch concerts and feel the need for some good speakers. Cost is not an issue, size is. That’s why I liked that 60 cm tall horn for the FE126, but if you say it’s fire material, I listen. What else is there that will do good bass in a small cabinet?
I like the small Fonken, but fear the matching driver is too small and won’t have enough power. On top of that, at this size, my wife would want them sitting on top of the book shelves. Does this make the situation worse?
Thanks a lot,
Michael
If you consider the Fostex Hybrid small enuff, want to make bass and not worry about creating sufficient level for TV use, you should consider the CSS (Mark Audio) EL70. mictoTower, halfTower, mMar-Kel70, the (not yet released) Mar-Kel70 FLoorstander. Any number of variations.
One or 2 drivers, 1 certainly does the job for me, in my room.
dave
One or 2 drivers, 1 certainly does the job for me, in my room.
dave
Though these do have some bass output (potentially better than you might get from a ported box)...
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/atta...-reference-project-diyref-fe126e-ml-voigt.gif
Estimated extension is out to 60Hz in room, which makes them very easy to integrate with a subwoofer.
Stuffing tends to reduce bass output, though I found adding some to the tapered section and a little around the driver meant a clearer midrange (reduced internal reflections), though at the slight expense of bass output.
Play with placement a little - too close to the back wall, and you'll want the extra stuffing in, to tame the extra output from boundry loading.
Chris
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/atta...-reference-project-diyref-fe126e-ml-voigt.gif
Estimated extension is out to 60Hz in room, which makes them very easy to integrate with a subwoofer.
Stuffing tends to reduce bass output, though I found adding some to the tapered section and a little around the driver meant a clearer midrange (reduced internal reflections), though at the slight expense of bass output.
Play with placement a little - too close to the back wall, and you'll want the extra stuffing in, to tame the extra output from boundry loading.
Chris
Well, technically it is a ported box, and without LF support the 126 does perform more of its magic in well executed "horn-ish" enclosure formats (BIB, Buschorn, Hornshoppe, and any of Scott Lindgren's family, to name just a few) . It should also work well enough in a FAST or MJK style OB system.
If the Fostex FE127 was still in production, it would be easy to recommend a small driver and enclosure ( 4.5liter)
However, Micheal's particular application here ( small TV speaker) would be better served by something like the suggested CHR/EL70 (or perhaps even the Alpair6), which are known to work quite well approx in the same format/volume.
If the Fostex FE127 was still in production, it would be easy to recommend a small driver and enclosure ( 4.5liter)
However, Micheal's particular application here ( small TV speaker) would be better served by something like the suggested CHR/EL70 (or perhaps even the Alpair6), which are known to work quite well approx in the same format/volume.
OK, the Fonken family size is acceptable and I think I narrowed it down to these options:
• Alpair 6 (or 7) GOLD - wife thinks they would look great on black cabinets and I totally agree, but I prefer the fonkens with vents on the sides and could not find one for the Alpairs.
• CSS EL70 – Dave, you mention the fonken version v1v is for sale only. Does it have side vents?
• FE127 – Dave you said you have two left. Are they good to go?
I tend to favor Alpair GOLD due to color. What’s your advice?
Thanks,
Michael
• Alpair 6 (or 7) GOLD - wife thinks they would look great on black cabinets and I totally agree, but I prefer the fonkens with vents on the sides and could not find one for the Alpairs.
• CSS EL70 – Dave, you mention the fonken version v1v is for sale only. Does it have side vents?
• FE127 – Dave you said you have two left. Are they good to go?
I tend to favor Alpair GOLD due to color. What’s your advice?
Thanks,
Michael
There is an A7 box with side vents like the FonkenPrime. Look for posts on CHR-Ken. Except for the size of vent spacers it is the same box. Don Austin (aka Doorman) is one of the few posted pictures of the latest revision. Once we get gold drivers into them, we will post pictures of our build.
A6.2 versions will come. Note that for the A6, these could well have a greater volume of wood than air (we did a set of uFonkenSE in this style, just over 2 litres of air and ~4 litres of wood (granted done overkill with 18mm bamboo ply
Yes. You are not buying plans but a subscription to a growing & evolving plan-set. It is a very comprehensive and the ability to ask for variations specific to your needs.
We are still early with these, but i am pleased with how many have gone out without me really talking about them, little info on my website and no posts yet on my diy forum on them
Last pair sold this AM. I have 4 singles left at a steep discount.
I tend towards the copper myself (it may be called gold but it is really copper)
Gold A6.1
Copper A7
My advice. If you have the power (& quality) & can afford them get the A7. If the amp is a bit sketchy or source material might get trying if the warts are exposed or if you want them to rock look at the EL70. If you don't have the power, the best candidate (FE127) is getting scarce. I did order samples of the new FF125 to see if it will be a suitable substitute.
dave
OK, then, I will go with A7.
Please pm me with how much / where I need to paypal for a pair of treated Alpair A7 GOLD including shipping to Portland, OR and also please help me locate that fonken with side vents that would go well with them.
Also what's the fonken subscription?
Thanks,
Michael
Please pm me with how much / where I need to paypal for a pair of treated Alpair A7 GOLD including shipping to Portland, OR and also please help me locate that fonken with side vents that would go well with them.
Also what's the fonken subscription?
Thanks,
Michael
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Waiting for the speakers to arrive, today I bought some veneer and 18 mm birch plywood and played a bit with Google SketchUp. I plan to make the fonken cabinet evolve into something like that. I will keep all the inner dimensions the same so I hope sound will not be hurt. I also think of using birch for the front panel only and solid foam for all the rest. I will build one first and try it and then decide if I need to switch back to 100% birch.
I noticed in the fonken plans that the driver seats into a recessed hole. Is this the mandatory way to go? What are the pros and cons of seating it on top of a hole with no recess?
I noticed in the fonken plans that the driver seats into a recessed hole. Is this the mandatory way to go? What are the pros and cons of seating it on top of a hole with no recess?
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The rebate sets the driver flush with the baffle to reduce diffraction effects. Ideally the driver should "see" a box that has edges that fall away backwards. Anything that protrudes* from the baffle will degrade the diffraction signature and make it harder, if at all, to disappear. Diffraction off edges, is like someone sticking up their hand and sayng shoot me, shoot me...
*(what is and is not a protrusion depends on the frequency of interest)
The render you show will probably have a high diffraction signature. It does look like a mini-CurvyChang, but that loudspeaker uses an 8" unit with much narrower dispersion , such that the protrusions small enuff at the frequencies where they would be seen that it gets away with it. Still it probably has more issues disappearing then just a normal chang.
With your design, you would also need to take care to maintain the length of the ports, not forgetting the effect of horn loading the vents with the protrusions.
dave
*(what is and is not a protrusion depends on the frequency of interest)
The render you show will probably have a high diffraction signature. It does look like a mini-CurvyChang, but that loudspeaker uses an 8" unit with much narrower dispersion , such that the protrusions small enuff at the frequencies where they would be seen that it gets away with it. Still it probably has more issues disappearing then just a normal chang.
With your design, you would also need to take care to maintain the length of the ports, not forgetting the effect of horn loading the vents with the protrusions.
dave
Dave, I think I have a problem with drivers mounted flush with the baffle. I read that a rounded edge of the driver flange helps fight against diffraction. Since the Alpair is square, how about adding a ring? I find it more pleasing. I could make the ring wider if needed.
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Rebate the driver so the mounting bezel is flush. In the case of the generously thick flanges of the Alpair7, this does mean either thicker material for the front baffle (25mm would be great) or a square of 6-9mm thick material on the backside of driver cut-out would provide more core for the mounting screws. Whichever material is used, remember to bevel or round-over the rear side of cutout - before assembly.
Yes, I've been in automaton mode more than once and forgotten that The large chamfers and narrow effective baffle are specifically purposeful
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For a rounded edge to be effective against diffraction it needs to be large... much larger than possible on a driver bezel. So in practice the driver still needs to be flush mounted in the sub-baffle and that subbaffle have significant rounding. Then you need to consider that round is good for wave launch, but not so good for diffraction -- with a circle the edge is equal distance all round the driver so all diffraction happens at the same frequency. An elipse is a good compromise. But, from Olsen, it turns out that a champhered box is not that far behind. Having the 2 edges on the Fonken-style boxes gets you most of the way there, adding material top and bottom and adding champers there improves things a bit.
dave
The attachment is an FE166eN^2 in a C&C SuperAbby (one of their budget models) which has a decreasing radius supraBaffle that starts falling away at the edge of the driver bezel. It is not as thick as larger models which are closer to what would be optimal.
Here is Olsen's landmark page 23 which gives a broad guide for the diffraction signature of basic shapes:
And a Fonken with additional top & bottom layers to allow for champhers there:
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The issue with round-overs is expense of larger router bits ( 1/ 1/2" R = $149 ) and the machine in which to safely spin it - something like the PC 3 1/2 HP production is $400, and you wouldn't want to be hand-holding this one - a very sturdy router table bolted to the floor is essential..
Bits this size, the power / weight of the average home DIYer's tooling , and hand held use is a recipe for You-tube disaster footage.
The other option would be a shaper, but again expense of tooling and access to this type of machine is far less common I'd imagine than the table saw required to cut the chamfers. This is one cut on the box where using a coarser tooth ripping blade and clean up with a sanding block can make things faster, that 72T ATB or negative angle melamine blade will very likely bind, overheat the blade and burn the plywood.
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