I love the idea of simplicity so when I first heard about full range speakers I was all over the idea. I saw this thread: Purple Speaker for the cheap wild burro speaker and figured it was time to bite the bullet and go for it! I built the simple folding open baffle described on the wildburroaudio website and everything went together wonderfully.
The speakers have had about 30-40 hours through them and I have some questions. First of all, they dont please me with with Rock. Distorted guitar sounds boomy or too high in the mids. I can't figure out what it is and how to solve it. Every other style of music I listen to from hip hop to jazz to vocals to orchestra sounds GREAT! Even "rock" like Radiohead is great, but anything with heavier distorted guitars is tough. It might be my room size and if that's the case then I'm screwed! (small, two rooms in one kinda thing)
Any ideas? do you need more details? should I get out my measuring tape and camera? these are my first DIY speakers so Im really new in this section!
The speakers have had about 30-40 hours through them and I have some questions. First of all, they dont please me with with Rock. Distorted guitar sounds boomy or too high in the mids. I can't figure out what it is and how to solve it. Every other style of music I listen to from hip hop to jazz to vocals to orchestra sounds GREAT! Even "rock" like Radiohead is great, but anything with heavier distorted guitars is tough. It might be my room size and if that's the case then I'm screwed! (small, two rooms in one kinda thing)
Any ideas? do you need more details? should I get out my measuring tape and camera? these are my first DIY speakers so Im really new in this section!
Mr. Rider,
What type of gear are you using with the speakers?
The most important question, however, is where are the speakers located in the room that you are using right now? OB's are very sensitive to correct placement and not all rooms will work well with them.
Best Regards,
TerryO
I am using a LM3875 chip amp I built to power the speakers
I thought it would have something to do with room size so I will try and break it down...
the wall that the speakers are on is 14'. That wall has a door to a balcony on it so without blocking that door I can only go about 4.5' close to that side wall (measured wall to center of cone). The room then comes back 9' and on the same side as the door there is another door (closed) with a bit of wall at the end of a hall 4' wide. At that same point on the other wall there is a 1' protrusion, kinda like an "opening" into another room which continues back 10' and is 9.5' wide. 9' ceiling throughout
there is a small couch around 9' back blocking the door at the end of the hall. The side opposite to the door has a 2'x8' bench with my computer and soldering/diy station on in, and in the back room is a double bed, and small dresser.
That may be too confusing...
I thought it would have something to do with room size so I will try and break it down...
the wall that the speakers are on is 14'. That wall has a door to a balcony on it so without blocking that door I can only go about 4.5' close to that side wall (measured wall to center of cone). The room then comes back 9' and on the same side as the door there is another door (closed) with a bit of wall at the end of a hall 4' wide. At that same point on the other wall there is a 1' protrusion, kinda like an "opening" into another room which continues back 10' and is 9.5' wide. 9' ceiling throughout
there is a small couch around 9' back blocking the door at the end of the hall. The side opposite to the door has a 2'x8' bench with my computer and soldering/diy station on in, and in the back room is a double bed, and small dresser.
That may be too confusing...
First of all, welcome to the wonderful world of DIY audio.
It looks like you've got to a point where further improvement would require some measurements. There may be a bump and hole in the response which may make the guitars sound wrong. Or it may be a resonance. Seems more like a resonance because you say the other "less loud" stuff sounds nicer.
Anyway, like Terry said, OBs need some space behind them and around them. Let them be out in the room if you can. Minimum 3 feet away from walls.
Just read that you are driving them with a chipamp. A nice tube amp with a low damping factors works wonders with sensitive full range drivers. Or look at one of the FirstWatt designs -- they work well too.
It looks like you've got to a point where further improvement would require some measurements. There may be a bump and hole in the response which may make the guitars sound wrong. Or it may be a resonance. Seems more like a resonance because you say the other "less loud" stuff sounds nicer.
Anyway, like Terry said, OBs need some space behind them and around them. Let them be out in the room if you can. Minimum 3 feet away from walls.
Just read that you are driving them with a chipamp. A nice tube amp with a low damping factors works wonders with sensitive full range drivers. Or look at one of the FirstWatt designs -- they work well too.
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Thanks! I pulled them away from the wall this morning a bit more and it seems to have fixed the mids! I will have to try at non early-morning levels when I get home from work.
As for the chip amp, I know everyone has there preferences. I would love to build a tube amp right now, but I just cant afford it. For the price the chip amp really performs well for me, Im glad I chose to build it. Next one the list will be a small SET though, just havn't found the one yet.
As for the chip amp, I know everyone has there preferences. I would love to build a tube amp right now, but I just cant afford it. For the price the chip amp really performs well for me, Im glad I chose to build it. Next one the list will be a small SET though, just havn't found the one yet.
Part of the problem may be that rock music as a genre hasn't generally had accurate playback on high end systems as a design goal. Most of it is recorded to sound good on car radios, so its often compressed and has some artificial sounding EQ going on. I've noticed that as my system improves, the old jazz just keeps sounding better, but most rock doesn't.
Man......I'll second that.
I love rock music, just as mentioned most is garbage quality.
I have spent a few $ in the last few yrs on quality equipment but a lot more
on a variety of speakers, trying to find the sound quality I wanted.
I have two very nice sets of totally different approaches.....an OB and a line
array, each does things a bit different than the other.....and each presents
different kinds of music a little better than the other.
Unfortunatly most rock just sounds crappy on both.
Not a bad thing really as it has made me find alternatives that I have really
learned to love.......and taught me to search for labels that I can trust
to deliver great sound.
Good luck on your system.
The LM 3875 chip is considered one of the best sounding chips for amplifiers, so you're probably fine with those. Single ended (Class A) amps are a step up in my opinion, but you don't have to hurry since the chip amps aren't too shabby by any means!
I saw that you pulled them out from the wall and it improved the mids, further adjustments are still in order to fine tune the sound, but do it in a systematic manner with tape measure and notebook, as you may hit on a placement that you'll want to return to.
Depending on your attitude this stuff is either just a lot fun (that's me!) or a royal pain in the neck. Either way, be methodical and you'll get the best results possible.
Continued Good Luck on your project.
Best Regards,
TerryO
Chris,
You are of course quite correct, but now you've gone and tipped off the newby's and once again, our Hobby/Passion has suffered another serious set-back. Everyone, IMHO, deserves a Honeymoon before faced with the stark reality of whatever their hobby consists of.
I take it your wife isn't fond of listening to lengthy monologs on the T/S parameters of such and such a driver?
(No luck here either)
Best Regards,
Terry
Hahah! I Started with DIY headphone amplifiers when I live with people, that made it fine, no annoying anyone. But after 4 years of that I ventured into this louder side of DIY audio. I am by no means a complete n00b to DIY audio, but to speakers TOTALLY.
So you say it might be the rock music, well I can see that a little. I know how this hobby is, they better your system gets the more flaws it points out, but I have a decent collection of decent recorded stuff and some of it will always work I feel.
I love to play, and this will be some seriously playing I can see with these open baffles. since they are hinged I also have to try different angles! D'OH! Lucky for me I live a lone and as lone as I respect the time I dont think I will annoy my neighbors.
Ok, a bit of rambling but heres the thing now, I live in a smallish apartment with lots of stuff, I know OB was maybe not the best idea but I like a challenge. So now, with them 3 feet away from the back wall I lose a considerable amount of space. Are there any other ideas I should consider before I completely change the arrangement of my living room/bedroom? would pictures help you help me?
So you say it might be the rock music, well I can see that a little. I know how this hobby is, they better your system gets the more flaws it points out, but I have a decent collection of decent recorded stuff and some of it will always work I feel.
I love to play, and this will be some seriously playing I can see with these open baffles. since they are hinged I also have to try different angles! D'OH! Lucky for me I live a lone and as lone as I respect the time I dont think I will annoy my neighbors.
Ok, a bit of rambling but heres the thing now, I live in a smallish apartment with lots of stuff, I know OB was maybe not the best idea but I like a challenge. So now, with them 3 feet away from the back wall I lose a considerable amount of space. Are there any other ideas I should consider before I completely change the arrangement of my living room/bedroom? would pictures help you help me?
Pics would probably help, but one of the drawbacks of OB's is the real estate you need to give up to have them at their best. It is possible to make "secret" marks on the floor and just move them back against the wall when they're not in use.
This is a bit off topic, but you may need a "test" recording to evaluate the speakers. For imaging, I personally like Mapleshade's Walk With Me by the ARC Gospel Choir.
BTW: I'm not a Gospel fan, but this recording is, IMHO, an absolutely indispensible tool for speaker design and evaluation. This opinion is also shared by several professional speaker designers.
Best Regards,
TerryO
This is a bit off topic, but you may need a "test" recording to evaluate the speakers. For imaging, I personally like Mapleshade's Walk With Me by the ARC Gospel Choir.
BTW: I'm not a Gospel fan, but this recording is, IMHO, an absolutely indispensible tool for speaker design and evaluation. This opinion is also shared by several professional speaker designers.
Best Regards,
TerryO
Heres a quick shot of my room, you will see the dilemma !
Any chance to move the speakers to the "long wall"? Of course you need to move the listening chair to the opposite wall as well, your current setup seems too close between-the-speakers and wall-to-the-speaker, especially for an OB design. I say get some of your buddies over for brewskies/spring cleaning and re-arrange the room and blast some good ol' RnR afterwards.
Jaz
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