I believe that frame was only used in the initial production run of CHP70s, which were made for the Japanese market about 2 years ago. Later runs have had the black frame at the request of distributors. On the up-side, you should get a slightly better drive unit; if memory serves, the black-frame models were produced at the same time as the Omnes branded version of the Gen.2 CHR, and share the same minor suspension modifications that should improve linearity at high loads. So I suppose you could call it (and the Omnes branded CHR) a kind of Gen.2.5 driver.
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You should take up the colour schemes with the European Distributor... they would welcome the feedback. To get the creme coloured bezel, 1st you ask Mark directly, he might have some... or, thru Norio, hook you up with a dealer in Japan that has them.
Personally I like th beige cone, but in the black bezel.
dave
Personally I like th beige cone, but in the black bezel.
dave
Squeak,
So what makes you think I wouldn't supply cream framed CHP's to the EU? A commercial death-wish? Clearly not the case, I'm not that stupid. Nick's supplying the black frame driver because its the popular colour:
Markaudio CHP-70 - Lautsprecher Selbstbau by blue planet acoustic
You appear to have specific knowledge on EU DIYer frame colour preferences so buy 250 cream pairs (minimum quantity), promote and sell them in the EU. We can give you an excellent wholesale price and will be happy to support you. Its great to have passionate DIYers involved in developing full-range as the future for many audio applications.
The Markaudio web-site is being re-vamped and will change once the new CHR and other drivers launch in the coming weeks.
Mark.
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I'm not questioning your will to survive, I'm questioning your methods of deducting what consumers in a give region want. One of the worst ways to know what people want is to directly ask them, 50 years of focus groups and market research efforts show as much.
People tend to answer what is expected of them and what they think is reasonable to like. For a famous example of this, read the chapter on the Aeron chair in Malcolm Gladwells Blink. Focus groups hated it, because they had never seen anything like it, but today it's the best-selling office chair of all time.
Product localization is at best mostly a way of keeping a few "experts" employed. At worst it makes your sales in a given territory worse than they could be, by tampering with an already perfectly crystallized design.
The strongest early pull-in attractor with the CHP-70 is the unusual (beautiful) colour scheme. It makes you pay notice and read the specs, look at the price and then buy. Why do you think most sites use the picture with the caramel colour frame, even though they only sell the black?
I don't have the money or time to start a driver shop, but I think it highly unlikely that there shouldn't be someone willing to distribute, and more important, lots of costumers for the CHP-70 in the original colour.
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Squeak,
The distributors choose the colour scheme. In Europe Ble Planet. Their site has a black basket.
Originally the CHP was a special request by the Japanese distributor and only available in Japan. Only the original order of 250 drivers had creame coloured* frames. They later found that the black frames sold much better. Blue Planet only ever wanted black.
The creame basket is still on the Mark Audio website only because Mark has not had anyone to maintain his website fro over a year.
* the colour always reminded me of the colour of maggots, but that is just me.
dave
The distributors choose the colour scheme. In Europe Ble Planet. Their site has a black basket.
Originally the CHP was a special request by the Japanese distributor and only available in Japan. Only the original order of 250 drivers had creame coloured* frames. They later found that the black frames sold much better. Blue Planet only ever wanted black.
The creame basket is still on the Mark Audio website only because Mark has not had anyone to maintain his website fro over a year.
* the colour always reminded me of the colour of maggots, but that is just me.
dave
Out of curiosity, I have just briefly looked at the websites of the official retailers who carry stock of these drive units. The majority appear to picture black frame units.
Squeak -you may wish to remember that with the exception of esoteric, extremely expensive, hand-built components, a la Feastrex, the bulk of drive unit sales (at least 99%) are purchases / orders from distributors. They purchase the drive units from the manufacturer, which they then retail to the end user / customer. Just like is seen in most other products. If a main distributor places an order for, say, 500 units with a black frame, exactly what are you proposing Mark should do? Refuse? While it would be nice to see an option of the original sand-colour frame for those who want it, there are certain commercial realities that need to be kept in mind. There is little point in producing something that a main distributor does not want, as there won't be enough sales to justify making them. That applies to most any company, but especially small ones, unless they require, and it would serve as, some form of loss-leader.
Squeak -you may wish to remember that with the exception of esoteric, extremely expensive, hand-built components, a la Feastrex, the bulk of drive unit sales (at least 99%) are purchases / orders from distributors. They purchase the drive units from the manufacturer, which they then retail to the end user / customer. Just like is seen in most other products. If a main distributor places an order for, say, 500 units with a black frame, exactly what are you proposing Mark should do? Refuse? While it would be nice to see an option of the original sand-colour frame for those who want it, there are certain commercial realities that need to be kept in mind. There is little point in producing something that a main distributor does not want, as there won't be enough sales to justify making them. That applies to most any company, but especially small ones, unless they require, and it would serve as, some form of loss-leader.
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You could associate something nasty with just about any colour you can think of.
If they actually found out that the other frame sold better though, then it's fair. A small company can't bet the farm on pushing something they *think* might build up a market.
It's just weird then that practically all you ever see is the cream colour. Both in online shops and in pics of finished DIY boxes... It seems many people are very happy with the original colour.
I have a feeling that it's a personal assessment of the distributor and not of the actual market.
The new white CHP (?) looks interesting though. Wonder when there is any probability of seeing that for sale?
If they actually found out that the other frame sold better though, then it's fair. A small company can't bet the farm on pushing something they *think* might build up a market.
It's just weird then that practically all you ever see is the cream colour. Both in online shops and in pics of finished DIY boxes... It seems many people are very happy with the original colour.
I have a feeling that it's a personal assessment of the distributor and not of the actual market.
The new white CHP (?) looks interesting though. Wonder when there is any probability of seeing that for sale?
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Hi Squeak,
Good to read your comments but I don't agree. This comment in particular is too negative:
"One of the worst ways to know what people want is to directly ask them"
All our DIY sales are done very much at the "grass routs" level, mainly through small dealers many of whom are themselves DIYers. These guys have great connections with their DIY communities. For me to stop talking to them, their communities and the DIYer's on this forum would be terrible.
The cream driver have been in Japan for some time, also more recently Australia. Sadly, the colour isn't proving popular. The feedback we're getting from the customers is "black frame looks better". You keep saying "It seems many people are very happy with the original colour". No-one's emailing me or beating on my door. If you've a long list of folks who these drivers, please send it to me.
I don't have the money or time to employ focus groups and uber fancy marketing of the sort you describe. Neither do my dealers. Why you've compared my one and a part time person DIY business to grand multi nationals with their complex marketing activites is beyond me. But I appreciate your sentiments when it when looking at some big businesses. I well remember being invited to a feedback and focus forum for a big Asian brand maker. It was heavily manipulative so there's no way they could have gained bias free outcomes.
I'm genuinely trying to encourage more people into this fantastic hobby, either as weekend builders or as little businesses to help finance the hobby.
I might have a pair of cream colour CHP drivers in local stock. Or I can ask Norio for you if he has a pair available. Feel free to email me at: support@markaudio.com
Personally, I like this colour. I've seen it in a very colour co-ordinated cab. Looked great but I can't force folks to like cream frames.
Thanks
Mark.
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But don't you see, asking small dealers is like asking a small focus group. In fact it's worse because the focus group is very primed and has particular habits and concerns that normal customers don't have. And even worse, you are not asking this group the right questions.
The way to do it would probably be to make a small production run of 250 drivers. Then split them up over the various dealers and see how well they sell.
I practically guarantee you that they will sell out.
The reason I'm particularly eager to get the cream frame is because I sold a few people on a personal design that matches this exact driver and the colour scheme. Maybe, just maybe I will get more requests by word of mouth. I'm not out to start a big business, as it is now, I'm just out to make a few people happy with a great sounding, good looking speaker.
The way to do it would probably be to make a small production run of 250 drivers. Then split them up over the various dealers and see how well they sell.
I practically guarantee you that they will sell out.
The reason I'm particularly eager to get the cream frame is because I sold a few people on a personal design that matches this exact driver and the colour scheme. Maybe, just maybe I will get more requests by word of mouth. I'm not out to start a big business, as it is now, I'm just out to make a few people happy with a great sounding, good looking speaker.
These aren't small dealers, they are fairly large distributors in most cases, and unlike a focus group, they are putting their money on the line.
Take Mark up on his offer, you could have the only creme basketed CHP70 in Europe.
dave
It was Mark who mentioned the small dealers. Whether they are large or small doesn't matter that much to my point.
I'm considering the offer which is indeed nice of him, but if you read my post I might just need more than a pair.
Squeak, people make images of whatever product they have, if early batches were cream, then the images from them will be cream, then people being people they can't be bothered to take new pics to replace them. That's the nature of the beast.
Trust me I run the marketing for a sporting goods manufacturer with 500+ retail partners worldwide- it's impossible for us to get them all to swap out images mid-season. It just won't happen.
Mark seems to have offered you a perfect solution.
Trust me I run the marketing for a sporting goods manufacturer with 500+ retail partners worldwide- it's impossible for us to get them all to swap out images mid-season. It just won't happen.
Mark seems to have offered you a perfect solution.
Sure, I know what you're saying but you're talking about the very folks who help me pay the rent. That includes the guys on this forum. They are the DIY market so can't be ignored. You're assuming these guys aren't 'representative' of the DIY community. Where's your evidence?
My email is known by many. I'm open and available on this forum. Type "Markaudio" into a web search engine, its easy for buyers to find me. I'm still not getting loads of guys telling me to make cream frames.
Sorry you don't agree but as said, I'm happy for you to take the cream driver forward and prove us all wrong. Trust me I'll be humble and gladly make you 500 units. Nick at Blue Planet will be very happy to take this order. He won't turn this business away.
I do appreciate your energy and I'm enjoying the debate.
Cheers
Mark.
Squeak,
I've just had an idea. Remember the plastic model kits? I knew them as "Airfix" kits. I used make a kit every month as a kid and paint them once assembled. I think the suitable paint was then known as "Humbrol".
Anyway, any suitable plastic model paint from your local model shop should be able to supply the colour you like. Test an area on the rear of the frame first to see if there's any adverse reaction. Carefully mask off the cone/surround area and you can paint the front of the frame to your colour choice.
Perhaps I shouldn't be saying this (just lost an order for 500 drivers)
Cheers
Mark.
I've just had an idea. Remember the plastic model kits? I knew them as "Airfix" kits. I used make a kit every month as a kid and paint them once assembled. I think the suitable paint was then known as "Humbrol".
Anyway, any suitable plastic model paint from your local model shop should be able to supply the colour you like. Test an area on the rear of the frame first to see if there's any adverse reaction. Carefully mask off the cone/surround area and you can paint the front of the frame to your colour choice.
Perhaps I shouldn't be saying this (just lost an order for 500 drivers)
Cheers
Mark.
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That's a point.
Squeak -it's all very well for you 'practically guaranteeing' xyz, but at present, it is not you who would be taking the financial risk is it? You also casually talk about spreading such units about amongst small dealers as if they are employees of Mark, rather than his customers who order more or less large batches of drivers from him. If they don't want them, they won't buy them. That's the way it works. The fact is, Mark has clearly stated that his trade dealers (who account for 99% of his sales) have found the black frame units sell far better than those with the cream / sand colour frames. I think they might know their own sales figures, ne cest pas?
And he can't just build a batch of, say, 250 units that the distributors don't want, and have them sitting around on the off-chance of getting a handful of orders. He does need to make a living. Painting the frames to a desired shade OTOH sounds a very sensible idea for a small number of drive units. Top tip -cut the paint back & apply multiple thin coats rather than a single thick one, just as you would with anything else that requires a high quality finish. For the cream / sand colour, the optimal Airfix & Humbrol shades appear to be ivory & light-buff, although you could use anything and mix / match to your requirements of course. They offer both acrylic & enamel types, along with clear finishes in gloss & satin which might be used for a top-coat.
I'm curious about your comments that 'practically all you ever see are the cream colour.' Leaving aside the spec. sheet pdf, I've taken a quick look at the websites sites of the main / large dealers, and practically all of the ones that carry the CHP show the black-frame version.
Squeak -it's all very well for you 'practically guaranteeing' xyz, but at present, it is not you who would be taking the financial risk is it? You also casually talk about spreading such units about amongst small dealers as if they are employees of Mark, rather than his customers who order more or less large batches of drivers from him. If they don't want them, they won't buy them. That's the way it works. The fact is, Mark has clearly stated that his trade dealers (who account for 99% of his sales) have found the black frame units sell far better than those with the cream / sand colour frames. I think they might know their own sales figures, ne cest pas?
And he can't just build a batch of, say, 250 units that the distributors don't want, and have them sitting around on the off-chance of getting a handful of orders. He does need to make a living. Painting the frames to a desired shade OTOH sounds a very sensible idea for a small number of drive units. Top tip -cut the paint back & apply multiple thin coats rather than a single thick one, just as you would with anything else that requires a high quality finish. For the cream / sand colour, the optimal Airfix & Humbrol shades appear to be ivory & light-buff, although you could use anything and mix / match to your requirements of course. They offer both acrylic & enamel types, along with clear finishes in gloss & satin which might be used for a top-coat. I'm curious about your comments that 'practically all you ever see are the cream colour.' Leaving aside the spec. sheet pdf, I've taken a quick look at the websites sites of the main / large dealers, and practically all of the ones that carry the CHP show the black-frame version.
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