alpair 10/12 for rock/bass heavy music?

[fxs]

Hi all. I have been thinking to build a pair of pencils with the alpair 10/12.

But seeing over the forum, a lot of people talk about the alpairs not being the most adecuated for rock/bass heavy music... i don't listen nothing too heavy, and also not so loud, but i don't want to be worry of break the drivers any time i listen to the allman brothers or if i should raise the volume control or not when i'm listening a nice upright bass solo...even i'm not sure if the bass would be nice enough at normal listening levels.

Can someone give some advice about this? Max. volume levels, bass extension, etc? Would it be very appreciated . Thanks!

 

[markaudio]

Hi all. I have been thinking to build a pair of pencils with the alpair 10/12.
But seeing over the forum, a lot of people talk about the alpairs not being the most adecuated for rock/bass heavy music... i don't listen nothing too heavy, and also not so loud, but i don't want to be worry of break the drivers any time i listen to the allman brothers or if i should raise the volume control or not when i'm listening a nice upright bass solo...even i'm not sure if the bass would be nice enough at normal listening levels.
Can someone give some advice about this? Max. volume levels, bass extension, etc? Would it be very appreciated . Thanks!

Hi Fxs,
Given what you've written, there's no problem with Alps playing rock/heavy music within sensible application. This applies to pretty much all full-range drivers. Indeed, when compared to high-efficiency full-rangers with short Xmas's, Alps are very bass capable.

Historically, the challenge has come about from those DIYers with less experience who read a large X max in the specs and assume the driver can be driven hard. This assumption was not correct.

As a general guide here's what you need to do:
1 - Size up your listening room and choose an Alp model to suite, e.g 4 metres X 6 metres could be Alp7's if you're not playing so loud or Alp10's and 12's if you want the system to handle more output.

2- Select a descent complimentary box design, e.g. Pencil series boxes work well in larger spaces while smaller vented boxes are usually more practical for lesser sized rooms.

2 - Match up your amp output. For example, class A/B up to X2 the rating of the driver, e.g Alp10 is rated at 35 watts so amp outputs of 70 watts is fine. You could go more but exercise caution with the volume control.

Its simply a question of being practical. Once you've got the system set up, run the drivers in carefully and load them sensibly.Alps are capable of playing loud if the box design and set up is well sorted.

Remember, you need your ear-drums for a lifetime. Never fails to amaze just how many DIYers are risking longterm damage to their hearing.

Cheers

Mark.

 

[fxs]

Thanks for your response Mark . Given your answers, i would like to ask:

- My room is about 5X5 meters, but not so much space for the pencils (with alpair 10/12). The pencils need to much space to breathe correctly? Of course, i can make space for the pencils , my question really is if the pencils are more appropiate for larger rooms.

- My amp is a harman receiver rated at 40w/channel. The harman receivers are supposed to be realistic about the power ratings (and so, are more loud than known receivers rated at 100 w eg). If you know something about this, i'm ok with that 40w/channel?

- About your comment on the ear care , that means the alps 10/12 can play to ear harm levels without breaking? If so, that answers my question about the power output .

- In another issue, i would like to ask you about the off-axis response of the alps on the pencils. It's supposed to be the radiattion pattern relatively constant up to some khz? I have read about how big and real it's the soundstage if the off-axis response is similar to the axis response (at least to some khz).


Thanks!

 

[markaudio]

Thanks for your response Mark . Given your answers, i would like to ask:
-My room is about 5X5 meters, but not so much space for the pencils (with alpair 10/12). The pencils need to much space to breathe correctly? Of course, i can make space for the pencils , my question really is if the pencils are more appropiate for larger rooms.

- My amp is a harman receiver rated at 40w/channel. The harman receivers are supposed to be realistic about the power ratings (and so, are more loud than known receivers rated at 100 w eg). If you know something about this, i'm ok with that 40w/channel?

- About your comment on the ear care , that means the alps 10/12 can play to ear harm levels without breaking? If so, that answers my question about the power output .

- In another issue, i would like to ask you about the off-axis response of the alps on the pencils. It's supposed to be the radiattion pattern relatively constant up to some khz? I have read about how big and real it's the soundstage if the off-axis response is similar to the axis response (at least to some khz).
Thanks!

Hi Fxs,
Id be tempted to look at Alp10 in Pencil 10.2's. 5X5m is a good size room so should be a nice match. Alp7 in Pencil 7 could also be a nice alternative if you need to look after free space in the room.

The Harmon receiver for either Alp10.2 or Alp7 is OK, although "receivers" tend to be a compromise build. If you have the opportunity to upgrade, it would be worth considering a change.

Yes, Alps (most any driver) can damage hearing given enough exposure to high volumes.

Your axis question, the emittance output is directional hence on/off-axis responses are considered representative of this feature. Bear in mind that room influences will also likely affect the outcome.

Thanks
Mark.

 

[fxs]

Thanks again for your answers Mark. I think i will be building the pencils 10.2 . I would ask again:

- Given what you said, then it´s possible to have about 80-90db at 3 meters aprox., playing heavy bass content, without risk of break the drivers? I probably wouldn´t listen to such high levels, but i want to have the capability to play loud ocasionally .

- About the stuffing material...the idea is to glue it to the inside walls? because the material would tend to block the open port. And this stuffing, should be uniform, more concentrated in some area,etc?

- There is a difference between the gold and grey 10.2 drivers?

Thanks again!

 

[planet10]

- About the stuffing material...the idea is to glue it to the inside walls? because the material would tend to block the open port. And this stuffing, should be uniform, more concentrated in some area,etc?

The material should be evenly fluffed, and should fill the volume above the port (more for looks than for functon

There is a difference between the gold and grey 10.2 drivers?

Except for the colour, no difference.

dave

 

[fxs]

The material should be evenly fluffed, and should fill the volume above the port (more for looks than for functon

dave

thanks for the answer. what i really wanted to say is, if you don´t glue the material to the walls, the material should tend to fall and then blocinkg the port. Or the idea is have the material tighty packed between the inside walls?

 

[planet10]

If you use the recommended polyfluff (dacron/wool/acostistuff/polester wool/pillow stuffing) even at less than the recommended quantity it should friction fit. If you are worried some sort of support doesn;t hurt (staves like Tony, uses, some netting, dowels across). In ours the holey braces acted as support. Glue won't do much as very little of the damping will be in contact with the glue, and if the glue gets into the fibre any significant distance will reduce its effectiveness.

If well fluffed, even if the wool falls to the bottom it will not block the port.

(Note: the above does not work with real wool which will fall into a clump & fall if not supported)

dave

 

[fxs]

planet10, i read this post: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/markaudio/177064-alpair-10-gen-2-introduction-6.html#post2468687.

now a few weeks later, how are playing this alps10.2? are the 3d soundstage similar to the alpair 7's? how is the detail? really i don't have listen any of them, but i have seen the 7's compared to the quads. for me, it's very important to have a realistic 3d soundstage (like if speakers disappear), and of course nice detail.

Thanks in advance

 

[planet10]

The 3d soundstage is similar to the stock A7, there but a bit shallow. The A7eN does it quite a bit better, blowing out the wall behind the speakers with good material.

Most of my A10.2 are still on the break in bench and i haven't tarted any up yet (i'm juggling well over a 100 drivers at the moment)

dave

 

[fxs]

The 3d soundstage is similar to the stock A7, there but a bit shallow. The A7eN does it quite a bit better, blowing out the wall behind the speakers with good material.

Most of my A10.2 are still on the break in bench and i haven't tarted any up yet (i'm juggling well over a 100 drivers at the moment)

dave

i suppose that difference in soundstage between a7 and a10 it's not so much, really? i mean, i really should consider a7 if the 3d soundstage is important to me? i have considered a10.2 principally for the better bass and more output, but if my room is 5x5 (and really i'm about 4 m from speakers), maybe a7 it's not a bad option, even i'm some concerned about the bass output..

 

[buzzforb]

I recently bulilt some Pensil's with 10.2's and can say that they do very well with rock music. NOt having heard the A7's, i cannot compare anyything, but driven by my ALeph J's, they present a wonderful soundstage. My biggest beef would be the top end is maybe a little dull, but that may be that i am use to overly bright monitors driven by cheap amps. Also, i only have about 150hrs on them, so break in is not complete. Bass is excellent and i would say very fast, although i know that is an incorrect term. All the above is true with my amps being driven by a very cheap sony DVD player. Can't wait for something better. Although A7's may be better in some things, as a standalone, I can't imagine them beating the 10.2's simply because of the low end extension and capability. A7's with helper woofer, well lets just say that it is next on my agenda. Just my opinion of course. MArk Audio rocks!

 

[fxs]

I recently bulilt some Pensil's with 10.2's and can say that they do very well with rock music. NOt having heard the A7's, i cannot compare anyything, but driven by my ALeph J's, they present a wonderful soundstage. My biggest beef would be the top end is maybe a little dull, but that may be that i am use to overly bright monitors driven by cheap amps. Also, i only have about 150hrs on them, so break in is not complete. Bass is excellent and i would say very fast, although i know that is an incorrect term. All the above is true with my amps being driven by a very cheap sony DVD player. Can't wait for something better. Although A7's may be better in some things, as a standalone, I can't imagine them beating the 10.2's simply because of the low end extension and capability. A7's with helper woofer, well lets just say that it is next on my agenda. Just my opinion of course. MArk Audio rocks!

thank you, nice to know that!

 

[planet10]

i suppose that difference in soundstage between a7 and a10 it's not so much, really? i mean, i really should consider a7 if the 3d soundstage is important to me? i have considered a10.2 principally for the better bass and more output, but if my room is 5x5 (and really i'm about 4 m from speakers), maybe a7 it's not a bad option, even i'm some concerned about the bass output..

If you really value 3D soundstage you should consider EnABLed drivers. The A10.2 is really a well done fit in the line. Most of the character of the A7, but a bit more dynamics & slam than A12. And at least in the sims, capable of a but lower bass.

dave