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Old 22nd February 2011, 08:20 PM   #1
Squeak is offline Squeak  Denmark
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Default Tweeters that blends well with a FE126e

I want to mate a tweeter with my drivers for casual listening with better dispersion all around the room, with the option of turning it off for hotspot listening.
So I'm after something relatively cheap, and something that only uses a cap for x-over. Also I want it to be seperate from the main speaker so it cant be a big horn. I probably want to cross relatively high, like 6 or 8Kh, so I'm out of the range where phase differences has huge importance.

I have my eye on the following:
- Apex Jr. ribbon tweeter. Very cheap and small, but the opinions seem mixed. I'm tempted to just try it, but it does take some effort to get the thing set up...
- Hi-Vi RT1C-A more pricey with very nice horizontal spread I'm told but nonexistant vertical. How does this gel with a fullranger, and how do you make the x-over? I a simple cap enough?
- Or how about the Monacor RBT-95SQ a bit cheaper than the HiVi. Is it any good?

Input and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I know similar threads have been done before, but they didn't turn out anything useful, to me at least.

Last edited by Squeak; 22nd February 2011 at 08:29 PM.
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Old 22nd February 2011, 08:56 PM   #2
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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a few thoughts:

I've used the Apex Jr tweeter with very underwhelming results - the little Audax from Steve was much nicer.

You'd probably want something with at least the same sensitivity as the FE126E, i.e. 92dB or higher.

I guess the vagaries of international marketing/distribution are a factor, but the Monacor Ribbon looks to be priced at 34pounds, while the HiVi and Fostex FT17H which is also worth looking at are within about $1.50 US from each other at $36.65 and $38.20 each (Madisound)

A single cap of approx 3mF would give your filter a 6KHz knee, but with something like the FT17H, you might want to tame its sensitivity by going a bit higher and using the filter's slope for additional attenuation. Start with a handful of cheap .47mF mylar caps and add in parallel until you can hear more than you want from the tweeter, then insert a higher quality part of the next smallest value. Not very scientific, but it works.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 07:06 AM   #3
Squeak is offline Squeak  Denmark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
a few thoughts:
I've used the Apex Jr tweeter with very underwhelming results - the little Audax from Steve was much nicer.
But I was talking about the ribbon tweeter. Not the 1 dollar thing.
Quote:
You'd probably want something with at least the same sensitivity as the FE126E, i.e. 92dB or higher.
Your could put two of the Apex ribbon in parallel together and get about 91dB. Maybe point them in different directions to avoid lobe interference.
Quote:
I guess the vagaries of international marketing/distribution are a factor, but the Monacor Ribbon looks to be priced at 34pounds, while the HiVi and Fostex FT17H which is also worth looking at are within about $1.50 US from each other at $36.65 and $38.20 each (Madisound)
With shipping there's going to be about a 50$ difference. But that isn't worth it for worse sound. It was only if the Monacor was actually better for some reason.
Quote:
A single cap of approx 3mF would give your filter a 6KHz knee, but with something like the FT17H, you might want to tame its sensitivity by going a bit higher and using the filter's slope for additional attenuation. Start with a handful of cheap .47mF mylar caps and add in parallel until you can hear more than you want from the tweeter, then insert a higher quality part of the next smallest value. Not very scientific, but it works.
Of the summed value op till the second last?

Edit: Just looked up the FT17H. It looks very good, with almost perfect specs. Wonder why I never seen that before? My only worry is that it's a horn, so how's the directivity?

Also forgot to mention the Fountek NeoCd1.0 1.5. It's shorter than it's bigger brother, so it must have better horizontal dispersion. How does it compare to the aforementioned HiVi and how easy is it to x-over? I read that many ribbons need more than a simple cap and an l-pad.

Last edited by Squeak; 23rd February 2011 at 07:18 AM.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 01:10 PM   #4
joern is offline joern  Europe
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Hi

what do you think abaut this guy:
http://www.tymphany.com/files/BC25SC06-04%20Rev1_0.pdf

also known as vifa ht25 HNF/4

look at zaph's tests:
http://zaphaudio.com/tweetermishmash/

and compare this test:
http://zaphaudio.com/nondomes/

very nice little tweeter below 20.-€ is a test worth.
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Last edited by joern; 23rd February 2011 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 05:07 PM   #5
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeak View Post
But I was talking about the ribbon tweeter. Not the 1 dollar thing.
actually it was the $1 thing:

Click the image to open in full size.


that I preferred to the $5 ribbon

Click the image to open in full size.


Quote:

Of the summed value op till the second last?
that's it

Quote:

Edit: Just looked up the FT17H. It looks very good, with almost perfect specs. Wonder why I never seen that before? My only worry is that it's a horn, so how's the directivity?
good question; I've only ever heard the Radio Shack version, and at that it was slight off axis (15`) in a fairly large space. So if wide dispersion of higher frequencies with a single driver is your goal, you might need to consider some of the CD compression drivers (which could easily surpass the cost of the FE126E). Alternatively the approach of array of small cheap cones or ribbons makes sense, in which case don't overlook something like the old classic CTS phenolic ring/ Peerless paper cone/Motorola Piezo lemon squeezers .



Quote:

Also forgot to mention the Fountek NeoCd1.0 1.5. It's shorter than it's bigger brother, so it must have better horizontal dispersion. How does it compare to the aforementioned HiVi and how easy is it to x-over? I read that many ribbons need more than a simple cap and an l-pad.
I've had very limited exposure to and no experience playing with any of the ribbons mentioned - time for others to pipe in.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 11:05 PM   #6
Squeak is offline Squeak  Denmark
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Well from what I can see the Vifa ht250 HNF/4 and the Fostex FT17H actually seem to have very similar directivity measurements (if they are to be trusted that is). So I guess it down to those two. The ribbons don't seem so hot after a bit of research.
So which one sounds the best? Which one blends the best with the driver in question?
The Vifa is only 4 ohm how would one go about putting that together with an 8 ohm main driver? From what I can see you either get 12 or 6 ohm in serial or parallel. Is this correct and which one is the best option?
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Old 24th February 2011, 12:55 AM   #7
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Have used FT17h extensively.

Great tweeter when crossed over high (the higher the better, really).
In practice, the HF dispersion is OK if not outstanding and not as good as most smaller domes, or ribbons. If you are within about 15degrees they are fine and they still sound good out to 30degrees, just a bit soft in the very top. The off axis responses are very smooth and surprisingly artifact free, just down a fair bit.

Very cheap for the performance on offer and sensitive enough to keep up with most things even if response shaping is necessary.
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Old 24th February 2011, 02:46 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeak View Post
... want to cross relatively high, like 6 or 8Khz ...
12-16kHz probably more appropriate

dave
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Old 24th February 2011, 08:56 AM   #9
Squeak is offline Squeak  Denmark
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Thanks chrisb and blakkshepeaudio, you've been very helpful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
12-16kHz probably more appropriate

dave
But remember what I'm trying to achieve here. Maybe I should ad two caps plus switches, to be able to switch between low and high cut-off for extra "sparkle" in hotspot listening and dispersion in walk around/guest mode?

Last edited by Squeak; 24th February 2011 at 08:58 AM.
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Old 24th February 2011, 12:17 PM   #10
joern is offline joern  Europe
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Hi

this is a very nice made "add on" fr fullrangers:
AddOn

They just have a capacitator and volume control...
well made. In this outfit you habe to pay for it....

so maybe the luxury version for x-mas...

the simple version: try 1 to 2,2F (it's a 4 ohm speaker)
and a resistor something between 1 and 4,7 ohms and listen, change, listen...
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