Markaudio or 4"TB to replace FE103e with 2a3 SET?

[mahleriana]

Hello,
I looked at many no-whizzer low-cost FR drivers to replace 103e drivers as their Xmax may in fact be too limited for me.
I used to try TQWT, horns etc without crossovers but my ears get tired of unbalanced sound and i just came back to a simple 6.9 l BR with Zobel and BSC.
Everything is fine, 103e has a beautiful sound... but when sound increase (music peaks) i just can't listen to it any longer. I guess it is the drivers going over their tiny 0.3 mm Xmax, even with my 2a3 SET.
I have in mind two low cost candidates :
TB w4-655 :
+ : still good efficiency, paper cone, 8ohm impedance, 3mm Xmax
- : a peaky and short treble, some say quality differs from a driver to another in the same batch, Fs/Qts not exceptional
MA CHR70 :
+ : good Fs/Qts, "driver included" BSC, 4.5 mm Xmax
- : low eff, only 4 ohm impedance, : not the best choice for SET ? metal cone (any ringing highs?)
Many other drivers have a strong rising FR, lowQts+highFs, big peaks in the 1-4k range, whizzers or limited Xmax.
I would probably make the effort going Alpair 10.2 if their prices wouldn't be twice as expensive here in Europe (200$/145€) than US prices (110$/80€)
I know I have a 2a3 SET...but I don't need anything to make parties in my appartment...the 103e may go quite loud with 2-4w.
Thanks in advance for your opinions !

[DYNABLASTERTUNERS]

"but when sound increase (music peaks) i just can't listen to it any longer"


Diffractions have a great influence on that, this would not occur so early in Sphere or Raindrop shaped Enclosures

[Andrewbee]

Everything is fine, 103e has a beautiful sound... but when sound increase (music peaks) i just can't listen to it any longer. I guess it is the drivers going over their tiny 0.3 mm Xmax, even with my 2a3 SET.

Perhaps you should consider a woofer / subwoofer of some kind that can crossover to the FE103 @ ~ 100Hz thereby relieving the FE103 of bass duties.

[mahleriana]

Originally Posted by Andrewbee

Perhaps you should consider a woofer / subwoofer of some kind that can crossover to the FE103 @ ~ 100Hz thereby relieving the FE103 of bass duties.

I already tried that (bought a second hand good quality sub), but sound has then really less finesse and upper registers become more grainy.

[chris661]

That could well be down to the crossover used to high pass the Fostexes.

A capacitor in series with the input of the amplifier will cut back their cone movement, and allow use of a subwoofer, but 4th order would be best before diminishing returns.

[rjbond3rd]

Originally Posted by mahleriana

I already tried that (bought a second hand good quality sub), but sound has then really less finesse and upper registers become more grainy.

Not a sub though. One helper woofer per side, e.g. pro audio 15" (Eminence, Altec, JBL, Goldwood etc.), running from 40 to maybe 200Hz. Requires a crossover (high pass and low pass). Much easier to integrate than a sub (subs can be really frustrating).

[AstroSonic]

If the sonic shortfall you are hearing with the 103E's is due to limited Xmax (and not a power limitation), and you are otherwise satisfied with the spl's they are capable of with your amplifier, you need a driver with significantly greater Xmax while retaining the sonic balance and resolution of the 103e's.

The TB W4-1320SJ has approximately the same sensitivity as the 103E, but much greater Xmax (3mm vs 0.6mm). As nice as the 103 is, the 1320 has greater extension at both ends, more detail and better dynamics. Used in a wide baffle BR and toed in a little, the 1320 does not need a Zobel or BSC. Of course, YMMV.

Good luck in your search.

Bob

[mahleriana]

I think the 1320 has a very rising response (about 7 dB from 200Hz upwards). I read some find on the bright side. I shall perhaps in fact start a new thread : best 4" FR with tubes ?

[AstroSonic]

Originally Posted by mahleriana

I think the 1320 has a very rising response (about 7 dB from 200Hz upwards). I read some find on the bright side.

System synergy determines the final sound. Then our personal preferences and tolerances play a major role in our reaction to this sound. As a result there are as many opinions about the sound quality of a particular driver as there are people who have listened to them. If you read about virtually ANY driver you will likely find at least a few strongly divergent opinions.

The response trend seen here (http://www.parts-express.com/docs/sp...one-driver.pdf) has to my eye a very mild rise, compared to say this one (https://www.madisound.com/store/manu...rs/fe108ez.pdf) or this one (http://www.parts-express.com/docs/sp...nge-driver.pdf). The latter two have a more typical rising response. All 3 are fine drivers... in the right enclosure and system. You will not likely find any 'problem-free' full range drivers, regardless of price. Also, keep in mind that these curves are on axis. Most of these full range drivers sound more balanced toed in.

You choose a driver with certain qualities that are your high priorities, then work with it and your system to arrive at a desired sound quality. There really is no 'best' X-inch full range driver.

I use the 1320's in a system with tubes, and I have a very low tolerance for 'thin' sound.

It does sound like the low Xmax of the 103E is the cause of the unsatisfying bass at relatively high levels. I know that you were unhappy with attempts to use a sub, but many have been very pleased with the result. It seems like it might be worthwhile for you to seriously revisit subs. There is a lot of expertise on that topic available here. You could have full bass and the 103E's.

Regards,

Bob

[Godzilla]

>>> You will not likely find any 'problem-free' full range drivers, regardless of price.

Agreed. I'd even go as far to say you are not likely to find any problem free speakers regardless of type.

I have the TB 4" bamboo drivers too and do not think they sound thin at all either. I use mine with an inexpensive yamaha receiver but they also worked well with the Sonic Impact T-amp. My wife thinks they sound a little cupped and nasal... i think they sound warm and yes a bit congested but not bad enough to spoil the fun. They are not tizzy or harsh.