Which Mark audio Alpair ?

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Hi Guys,

Im (also) looking into a micro monitor speaker. The alpairs look very interesting, but there are many available (also the discontinued ones are easy to get).

I am thinking of a 1-3 liter volume, preferably no filter, I like detail and natural sound in jazz and vocals. It doesnt have to be loud and bass is not that important. I have a Tube pre-amp and plan to use a class D power amplifier.

In my research I came across:
alpair 5 - but needs filtering for high end ?
Alpair 6 - "only" goes to 24KHz
Alpair 6P - paper cone sounds better ?
Alpair 7 - 30KHz :) but needs filtering to even out the frequecy respons ?
Alpair 10 - very nice (flat) frequency response, can handle more volume but could be missing the high ?

So which want would suit best ?

Or since I do like the ribbon sound, does it mean I should skip the wide band and look into a two way design with the scanspeak 10F/4424G with a ribbon ?

Thanks
 
Hi Guys,

Im (also) looking into a micro monitor speaker. The alpairs look very interesting, but there are many available (also the discontinued ones are easy to get).

I am thinking of a 1-3 liter volume, preferably no filter, I like detail and natural sound in jazz and vocals. It doesnt have to be loud and bass is not that important. I have a Tube pre-amp and plan to use a class D power amplifier.

In my research I came across:
alpair 5 - but needs filtering for high end ?
Alpair 6 - "only" goes to 24KHz
Alpair 6P - paper cone sounds better ?
Alpair 7 - 30KHz :) but needs filtering to even out the frequecy respons ?
Alpair 10 - very nice (flat) frequency response, can handle more volume but could be missing the high ?

So which want would suit best ?

Or since I do like the ribbon sound, does it mean I should skip the wide band and look into a two way design with the scanspeak 10F/4424G with a ribbon ?

Thanks


Well I think the last option (2-way) would make for something larger than 1-3liter micro-monitor.

Based on the Mark Audio drivers I've heard, I'd suggest the Alpair6 paper. The larger models in the line certainly sound excellent, but even if they model well in the volumes in mind, it can be rather tricky to actually fit them in the tiny boxes.

While designed for the metal cone version ( Dave could advise required revisions for the "P") this little box could be a decent starting point.

even in a box this small, the bracing should be considered important


http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FAL/downloads/mMar-Ken6-1v0-map-231009.pdf

I'm curious why two of your notes specifically reference the upper extension of the drivers (particularly the "only to 24kHz"), just exactly how much do you expect to benefit from performance that high?
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
The mMar-Ken6, with slight modification, works with the A6p. It is nominally 4.5 litre.

For an enclosure as small as you are targeting A6P or A6M would be my suggestion. A6M will fit in a smaller box. I have a 2.5 litre design that works with either driver, and a 1.5 litre for the A6M. If little or no bass is OK, 1-2 litre sealed would work with A6M

dave
 
>>> ...should skip the wide band and look into a two way design...

Yucky.

>>> I like detail and natural sound in jazz and vocals.

Full range drivers do this really well. Doesn't mean a two way can't but just thinking of how much work a crossover can be to get the sound right with a scan speak driver just puts me off. I would be forever tweaking!

>>> So which want would suit best ?

I haven't yet but see no reason not to grab one of those MA drivers and enjoy your music already. They have an excellent reputation.
 
jumping to conclusions?

I forgot to mention in my earlier reply that "mini monitor" always suggests to me either near field / desk-top, or 100sq ft bedroom type of system. This is an area in which I've always found small FR drivers/enclosures to perform particularly well.

for example, these silly good little ( 2 liter) speakers sound way bigger than they have any right to, but the drivers (Fostex FF85K) have been discontinued, and to be honest some might prefer filtering on them

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Well I think the last option (2-way) would make for something larger than 1-3liter micro-monitor. ...
[snip]
...
I'm curious why two of your notes specifically reference the upper extension of the drivers (particularly the "only to 24kHz"), just exactly how much do you expect to benefit from performance that high?

I think he was making a little joke with the "only goes to" comment on a full range speaker. On the other hand, he did mention ribbons ... ;-)
 
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Hi Guys, thanks for the replies,

I know that the ear can hear up to 24 KHz, however I have noticed while listening to speakers with designs that go 30KHz and above sound quite different.

Not sure if its the design (ribbon) or the extended frequency range that make them sound different.

With only going to 23KHz means in comparison to the 30KHz of the Alpair 7 :)

Why go for the 6 and not the 7 by the way ?
 
Hi Guys, thanks for the replies,

I know that the ear can hear up to 24 KHz, however I have noticed while listening to speakers with designs that go 30KHz and above sound quite different.

Not sure if its the design (ribbon) or the extended frequency range that make them sound different.

With only going to 23KHz means in comparison to the 30KHz of the Alpair 7 :)

Why go for the 6 and not the 7 by the way ?

the questions of hearing physiology / psycho-acoustics /"perception" aside, to answer the last question - driver dimensions and your original query re micro/mini size enclosures would be the primary reason for considering the 6 over the 7.

I'm listening to a pair of 12's at the moment, but for my money the paper cone EL70 (or presumably it's fraternal twin CHP70 which I've not heard) and the Alpair 7 are my favorite MA drivers yet. The 7s are wonderful in Scott's Pensil, or the P-10 Mar-Ken, but I think you'd be hard pressed to fit them and venting as required in a 3 liter box ( at the upper end of your described range) and still realize it's full LF potential.
 
Ive got some Alpair6P's in a 4.5 litre bass reflex sounding very good indeed in the nearfield, very dynamic, immediate and involving and not at all small.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/181896-mark-audio-alpair-6p-application-thread.html

A small sealed enclosure never sounds very good in my experience, they always sound constricted somehow, go for a small driver in a vented box is my advice

All speakers are compromised, the paper trades a little refinement for excitement. But if you are a fan of the "ribbon sound" as you say look at the metal version which I hear is smoother. I'm very impressed with my first Mark Audio purchase!
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
Dave how low will the Alpair7 play in a 5 liter sealed box?

f3 of ~ 90 hz... from the sim it looks like you could use 2 litre. I'd be affeared of a cupped midrange, and some difficulty making a box that small that fits the big bezel

dave
 

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I'm listening to a pair of 12's at the moment, but for my money the paper cone EL70 (or presumably it's fraternal twin CHP70 which I've not heard) and the Alpair 7 are my favorite MA drivers yet.

Hi Chris,

What enclosure do you have the 12s in? Do you find them lacking in certain areas compared to the EL70 and 7? I have a large space and went ahead and picked up the 12s. :)
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
With a change in the width of the vent spacer (and the detail required to actually fit the driver in the baffle and have the holey brace work), the Fountek FR88ex can be substituted. What that width of spacer is, is buried in one of the 1st FR88ex threads.

With 26 FR88ex sitting waiting, i'll have to dig that out. uFonken88 drawings and flat-paks will (eventually) become available.

I don't think the FR88ex is quite as good as the FF85 but it is real close and certainly capable of more bass (at the sacrifice of efficiency) so better suited to unassisted use. It is marginingly cheaper and represents good value.

The wide bezel of the MA A6.2 preclude their use in a uFonken, but similar boxes are under development.

I should also mention that there now exists a uFonkenSE. It looks like a small FonkenPrime with the slots on the sides and the big champhers. The extra wood (we built the exemplar out of 18mm bamboo ply), pushes the external size up to millSize.

Pictures when i get the drivers done & installed.

dave
 
I have the Alpair 6M in a small BR box and they are excellent. Also have the Alpair 7 and old Alpair 6. This bit about "only goes to 24Khz" in my opinion is BS, especially for a micro monitor. All my Alpairs are unfiltered. The Alpair 7 is also excellent, and in some respects I think are better than the Alpair 6M, but they do sound brighter and with some source material a bit edgy to my ears. They also will require a bigger box than the Alpair 6, so just on that basis I would think you could rule them out. The Alpair 6M has a smooth neutral sound, definately no filtering is required with this one. As for "paper cone sounds better" I think that is also BS. Better way to put it is - paper cone sounds different. It depends on your personal preferences, and there is plenty of discussion about the differences between Alpair 6M and Alpair 6P on this forum. The new generation Alpairs have a high tech alloy cone, and to rule out metal cones out becasue you think paper sounds better I think is a mistake.

The latest generation of Alpairs have excelllent treble, so i would not be concerned about that. A two way with ribbon is a lot more expensive, far more complicated and will result in a bigger box for little gain. Crossover problems are likely to cause for more problems than any perceived weakness of treble in full range drivers. The Mark Audio drivers IMHO are a cut above the rest of the herd of full range drivers in this respect. If I were you I would use the Alpair 6M or Alpair 6P, the choice depending on your personal preference. You could have that up and running in a fraction of the time of a 2 way.
 
I don't think the FR88ex is quite as good as the FF85 but it is real close and certainly capable of more bass (at the sacrifice of efficiency) so better suited to unassisted use.

Hey that's interesting. The 10 euro FF85 sounds better? Just the xmax issue.. but would be great in a 1st order 2 way?

Back to the Alpairs, the latest ones need such big boxes.. a bit of an issue imo
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
The 10 euro FF85 sounds better? Just the xmax issue.. but would be great in a 1st order 2 way?

10 euro? I'll buy as many as i can get for 10 euro. These were about $70 a pair retail in the US, and the FF85KeN were $160/pr (and a bargin). FR88eXeN should be about $10/pr less.

Yes, they are exceptional as a mid-tweeter. Here the proper way to do an MTM.

195454d1289116224-marks-proto-6-5-woofer-1-silk-tweet-combo-el166-mtm-front.jpg


195455d1289116224-marks-proto-6-5-woofer-1-silk-tweet-combo-el166-mtm-close.jpg


  • XO at ~ 250-300 Hz
  • all the drivers are essentially coincident
  • time coherent 1st order series XO. with 8 ohm mid-tweeter and 4 ohm bass i also get to use the "small" cap + the "small" inductor. Balance with the more or less constant output tube amp works well, things might get a bit upset with a SS amp (too much woofer).
  • dispersion character at the XO point is essentially the same, so you don't get an off-axis flare
  • Same could be done with Alpair 6.2 or FR88eX

Back to the Alpairs, the latest ones need such big boxes.. a bit of an issue imo

Big? A6M in particular fits in quite a small box. A6P in a box slightly larger than the FF85. My big boxes for these are 3.6 and 4.7 litres (M&P)

The larger drivers need bigger boxes althou EL70/CHP/CHR/A7 will fit in the same milliSize box as the big box for the A6P.

dave
 
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