GM's always done a good job of making others feel... how shall we say... inadequate.
se
105 db at the listening position is very loud, 95 db is what most would consider loud IMO..
Agree , E/Q and tone circuits tends to colour the sound .....
Yes and easy to see if you measure @ 1W/10W/25W/50W and then compare the curves.
regards,
Certainly even 95dB at the listening position is too loud for me if it's an average. But the point is (as the OP), I'd be putting maybe 1/2W max into the speakers (that's likely to be the max output of the amp) - avg output would be much lower. 105dB at one watt becomes much lower in my case (don't have the brain power right now to figure out the decrease).
GM's point is an interesting one and was not directly a part of what I was thinking about regarding efficiency. If I'm listening to dynamic music (I DON'T like compressed sound) then a transient might be loud enough with a speaker spl of 105, but overall the sound level might be inadequate. I'll be thinking more about this. I don't recall if most spl ratings are an average or a max. Anyone?
Anyway, I'm learning a ton here. Thanks all.
Probably something like his avatar pic or close
There was a time in my misspent youth when I had the room 'real estate' to allow me to indulge in multiple 80 ft^3 cabs, but kids have a way of sucking bank accounts dry and combined with rapidly changing traffic patterns and school zones due to Atlanta's exponentially expanding growth back then, we were 'forced' to move to one with more bedrooms/baths, but less total living space.
This forced me to cut the horn sections out, bracing them and adding wedge shaped compression chambers to fit them into the corners of a much smaller room and built the ~20 ft^3 cabs from the scrap as 'sub' platforms to perch them on. For a variety of reasons I switched the multi-cells out for dual stacked 511 sectoral horns and except for various experimental tweaks and the occasional electronics upgrade, that was the status quo for ~ three decades until Tom Danley offered the basslist Servo-Drive Contrabass kits to replace the 'subs'.
As 'clean'/'tight' as the Altecs are, the CB was at another level, being even more horn-like, making for an even better mate to the 70 Hz horns, but alas, life took a turn for the worse, forcing a 'fire sale' that got most of the audio stuff.
Oh well, wasn't the biggest/baddest/'best' HIFI system around, far from it, but I met my childhood goal of having true cinema sound (and then some, extreme bass/treble wise) at home and I did it without it impacting the family budget thanks to a cinema being gutted out with them only being interested in selling off the electronics part of the sound system; plus it spurred many to aspire/acquire/DIY similar or downscaled versions that overall matched or outperformed the factory consumer horn speaker offerings, not to mention the ever shrinking cone/dome speakers of the day, so a nice added benefit.
GM's always done a good job of making others feel... how shall we say... inadequate.
se
Hopefully, the folks here understand that's never been my intention, though I have had the occasional email suggesting that I should spend my time with my own kind, i.e. only post on HE forums, and let others of a similar audio desire come to me/us.
Again, we'll have to agree to disagree, 95 dB peaks is only 75 dB average for movies and older recordings and if one happens upon a less compressed recording, it pushes it as low as 65 dB to keep the amp from clipping.
Factor in that we set our own SPL comfort zone based on distortion levels and even 95-100 dB averages isn't too loud to many if the distortion is low enough, which can only be accomplished AFAIK by proportionately increasing system efficiency.
Some of the best 'candid camera' moments I've witnessed were those where non-audio centric folks would audition my system and let them set the volume since they assumed I was already mostly deaf from such a huge phallic symbol, with more than one woman wanting to know how many guns I owned, then at some point during the audition would turn to me to say something and the look on their face when they realized they couldn't hear themselves was priceless!
Even more interesting was that women tended to set the volume higher than men (measured ~105 dB avg./LP during a Pink Floyd 'Meddle' album audition, well beyond my norm and worse, causing some TT mistracking), proving my assumption to my satisfaction that women need to be the ones 'voicing' HIFI and now, HT speaker systems for all but pure 'man caves'. I'm convinced it would solve a lot of WAF problems if they had a system that made their style of music pleasing to them.
GM
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GM that's 95db din, not peaks. when i did measure most listening sessions avg in the 82db-84db din range with peaks hitting 95-98 db.
At 95db din with Peaks in the 105db range would be considered very loud in an home environment IMO and i can believe the levels you state , as we listen louder when listening to a band for eg. Live unamplified instruments are different and very rarely do they exceed 105db unless you happen to be feet from the instrument ...
regards,
At 95db din with Peaks in the 105db range would be considered very loud in an home environment IMO and i can believe the levels you state , as we listen louder when listening to a band for eg. Live unamplified instruments are different and very rarely do they exceed 105db unless you happen to be feet from the instrument ...
regards,
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Hi Greg,
The old "Bass List" crew certainly were something else. I wanted to get Danley's Contra Bass kit, but just couldn't swing it at the time. I wonder how many of those were eventually built?
I can't speak for most people, but your efforts to be helpful has been my understanding of your intentions. Too many people get caught up in their own niche and forget that the ultimate goal is the the most realistic musical reproduction possible...by whatever the means.
Very high efficiency is merely one of the better paths to that goal. It's been years since I've had horns, but enough of my kids have moved out on their own, that I may be able to return to my favorite type of speaker. Maybe this next Summer!
Keep up the good work Greg.
I, for one, appreciate all that you've done for the Audio Community over the last few decades.
Best Regards,
TerryO
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>>> I have had the occasional email suggesting that I should spend my time with my own kind...
F them. From small speakers to large your input is MUCH appreciated. You double check math, offer suggestions, speak from your experience, etc... stay!
>>> since they assumed I was already mostly deaf from such a huge phallic symbol, with more than one woman wanting to know how many guns I owned...
lol. no ones asked about guns but they all can see my collection of fake guns and knives (for self defense practice), heavy bag, speed bag (which is in the listening room) and various striking pads. My kids and i love to hit stuff!
F them. From small speakers to large your input is MUCH appreciated. You double check math, offer suggestions, speak from your experience, etc... stay!
>>> since they assumed I was already mostly deaf from such a huge phallic symbol, with more than one woman wanting to know how many guns I owned...
lol. no ones asked about guns but they all can see my collection of fake guns and knives (for self defense practice), heavy bag, speed bag (which is in the listening room) and various striking pads. My kids and i love to hit stuff!
As long as the UI is user friendly ('n even men like that too - I think) and the system matches the decor.
Yeah, that was a problem initially since I used separates rather than the typical receiver and with no remotes, all I could do was set it all up to turn off/on via the pre-amp's power button except the RTR.
Decor has never been an issue for me, though in my youth I was a 'neat freak', so the electronics, record collection, etc. area tended to look like something out of a mainstream magazine display. Plus, I didn't/don't much like looking at big matte gray or black cinema horn stacks any more than women do, so being corner loaded, they had a full width, ~ceiling height screen hiding them with the fabric chosen to either best blend to the wall's color or at least not clash with it. Even big horns don't intrude much, if any more than a corner china/curio cab and looks like one of today's corner panel absorber array.
GM
I agree with Bigun. For most applications, a low power tube amp can work with the smaller 3 inch full rangers, like the tangband drivers. I have used a lowpower SET with them, and got descent volume in a near field setting. But the 5 watt GLOW single ended tube amp drives the Hivi and Aurasound 3 inchers to surprising volume levels. The miniwatt and the small Jolida EL84 push/pull have enough power also.
I like the better dispersion and flatter response of the small FR drivers to the sound of the larger full range drivers. I use a sub to augment at the low end, but let the full range drivers do their thing above 100 hz.
I like the better dispersion and flatter response of the small FR drivers to the sound of the larger full range drivers. I use a sub to augment at the low end, but let the full range drivers do their thing above 100 hz.
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