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Old 27th January 2011, 09:21 PM   #51
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Brines View Post
OK, perhaps a little snarky.

Mine aren't and I have preset 3,6, and12 dB loudness curves in the DSP chain. I do not use any passive EQ, so I have presets for each of my speakers. The base EQ is for ~75dB at the listening position.

And I'll allow you that a well damped room does wonders. Unfortunately SWMBO has dictated the space I can use and it is definitely not ideal.

Bob

Bob, I was going to ask him to share his secret

tinitus: care to enlighten us
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Old 27th January 2011, 11:37 PM   #52
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
Bob, I was going to ask him to share his secret

tinitus: care to enlighten us
ahh, I guess I will have to say it....3 way....and crossovers

with fullrange you have to stay with what they do well, and stay away from what they cant do
and on subject EQ, its probably a good way to take it to the next level
I would use it too

and yeah, usually worked better with tube amps
if rock music is your main music, use a fullrange with good Xmax and relatively heavy diaphragm, and a super tweeter

a FAST design could be the next option
passive, and classic 300-500hz xo point

now Im in trouble
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Old 28th January 2011, 05:09 AM   #53
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Perhaps a more important question on speaker efficiency is ....

Using year 2010 speaker technology, is there an efficiency range that produces the best sound quality with adequate dynamics and good living room placement?

The speakers I favor are between 94 to 98 db/watt efficiency. This range seems to offer the best combination of wide bandwidth, flat SPL/frequency, low phase spread, acceptable box size, and easy crossover design.


PERSONALLY, I would not own the 105 db/watt Klipschorns, but really enjoy the sound of 98db/watt JBL DD6600 and 93db/watt JBL K2 S9900.

I own a couple Tang Band W8-1808 8" full range speakers with 94db/watt efficiency in an MLTL and like the sound and simple equalization. Some of the higher efficiency 8" full range have response curves that seem beyond my talent to equalize, or require complex horns.

Is there an efficiency range that produces the best sound quality?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg JBL-DD66000.jpg (54.0 KB, 261 views)
File Type: jpg JBL K2.jpg (63.5 KB, 261 views)
File Type: jpg 264-893_s.jpg (10.2 KB, 256 views)
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Old 28th January 2011, 05:49 AM   #54
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LineSource View Post
Perhaps a more important question on speaker efficiency is ....

.....

Is there an efficiency range that produces the best sound quality?

sorry couldn't resist

OK kids, pull up a chair and grab some popcorn, the movie's about to get interesting...


all kidding aside, the JBL6600 are a gorgeous piece of industrial art - I'd certainly love to hear a pair
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Last edited by chrisb; 28th January 2011 at 05:51 AM.
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Old 28th January 2011, 06:16 AM   #55
GM is offline GM  United States
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Excepting bass, I've owned up to ~112 dB/4ft eff. (freaking huge by most folk's standards) and in some ways wanted more, but my (merely huge) current ~104 dB is already too high for its signal chain's noise floor for best total SQ, so this to me is the limiting factor for 'best' eff..

If we accept cinema reference for peak/avg. and 8 W at vanishingly low distortion, then in an average room, ~96 dB/m should suffice. Some symphonic CDs have up +30 dB (clipped) transients though, so to keep from clipping the amp we need ~106 dB/m eff.. This is moot though if the signal chain and speaker's HF isn't good out to 25-30 kHz to cover its leading edge, so when talking 'best', this ideally needs to be part of the equation.

GM
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Old 28th January 2011, 11:55 AM   #56
Carlp is offline Carlp  United States
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Quote:
Perhaps a more important question on speaker efficiency is ....
You are right, of course, linesource. And for the average person, I'd bet 96dB would be fine as a max, maybe even too much. Especially considering noise floor and for those like me who like vinyl. It's just my likely <0.5W amp won't do much with that except in the very near field (hmmm, I suppose that would make me below average ).

So just an update, I've been doing lots of reading based on threads and articles suggested here. At the moment I'm leaning toward some trials with line source and waveguides using v cheap drivers, then using that as a springboard to deciding between them. But first to finish design work on the amp itself...
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Old 28th January 2011, 12:50 PM   #57
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GM, what are your current speakers like? I read earlier that they have dual HF woofers but would love to know any details you're willing to share!
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Old 28th January 2011, 02:43 PM   #58
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>>> They have full range 12 inch drivers, and BOY are they efficient.

>>> JBL DD6600...

>>> and in some ways wanted more...

Yes, more, more, MORE!

I've been listening to 12" wide range drivers lately and love them warts and all because they present music with a bigger, more lifelike sound than any of the smaller drivers i've been using. The smaller drivers do some things better but overall, i really enjoy larger drivers... and yes, i want more!

I have those TB 1808 and think they are great. Next to the Eminence 12lta you can barely hear them. Sure the TBs are sweeter sounding and portray some of the more delicate parts of the performance but they don't produce as realistic a performance as the larger drivers. I have even smaller Fostex 127e, 168s, 165k and several other nice full range drivers... but they seem to sound like their size suggests... smaller drivers sound smaller to me. Larger drivers excite the air. Music FEELS more real. The room bristles with excitement. When Shelby Lynne's voice filled my room last night i was in heaven. After a long day of shoveling it was a great way to unwind. Phantom of the Opera rumbled, startled and felt more real in my listening than it ever has... I bet that Jensen 12" sounds great. If you have the room, go with bigger drivers!

That JBL is gorgeous!
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Old 28th January 2011, 03:18 PM   #59
GM is offline GM  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjbond3rd View Post
GM, what are your current speakers like? I read earlier that they have dual HF woofers but would love to know any details you're willing to share!
Dual mid '50s Altec 515B woofers in ~20 ft^3 nominally corner loaded cabs that nowadays would be considered a ML-TQWT tuned to ~16 Hz. Altec 511/802-8D compression horns, Altec 500 Hz XO. Beyond CD horn EQ to flatten it out to ~20 kHz and acoustically aligning the horn to the woofers, it's not optimized nor have any of the tweaks I recommend since it's a 'make-do' system for now.

GM
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Old 29th January 2011, 01:28 AM   #60
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Gadzooks, GM, 20 cubic feet! 16Hz?!

Sounds pretty sweet. If that's your make-do system, I can't imagine what your ultimate system would be.
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