Lowther vs Manger - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Full Range

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 14th December 2010, 12:16 AM   #1
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Default Lowther vs Manger

Hi!

A friend of mine who loves recording classical music put a friend in touch who had a problem with storing his Dad's old Mangers. He'd obviously had his eyes on the Mangers for years . . .

The friend brought the Mangers over and we auditioned them. Polite, flat, subtle are the expressions I understand are used about them, and then I switched over to a pair of Lowthers in front horns using backwards-into-the-corner facing Acoustas for deep bass. . . . My Manger friend could not believe his ears, saying they were the best speakers he'd ever heard . . . instruments jumping out at you in a nice and pleasing way . . .

However, when he went, his son having become fractious at this stage, I tried a little experimenting. Just as people complain of lack of bass with TP1s and simply say "turn up the bass", I turned up the treble on the Mangers and they sounded like the Lowthers . . .

It seems to make nonsense of so called flat frequency responses. Are the measurements wrong or do our ears simply like something different?

Best wishes

David P
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th December 2010, 12:46 AM   #2
diyAudio Member
 
Joachim Gerhard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Our ears are superbly sensitive for frequency response diffences and level differences.
When you did not equalise the two speakers to match that criterions to a certain precission
( say + - 1dB ), a direct comparision is not posible. There are other things that make a good loudspeaker, but this are very basic esentials in a nutshell.
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th December 2010, 01:15 AM   #3
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Bruchsal/Germany
Hi David ,

normaly they present two worlds ( for mine ears ), maybe because this
was a pair of old Mangers , they needed mor treble , but the newer ones
are okay . I like the Manger more than the Lowthers .

Juergen
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th December 2010, 01:43 AM   #4
tnargs is offline tnargs  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Flat FR is not the only requirement for good speakers. But it is preferred.
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th December 2010, 02:02 AM   #5
diyAudio Member
 
Joachim Gerhard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Yes, the next most important are low distortion, dynamics and the whole issue of radiation pattern. Phase or time response could fill a book.
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th December 2010, 11:52 AM   #6
tnargs is offline tnargs  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Manger FR above 200Hz

MangerFR.jpg

Lowther FR to same scale (if you open it):

LowtherAcoustaFR.jpg
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th December 2010, 10:06 PM   #7
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiotux View Post
Hi David ,

normaly they present two worlds ( for mine ears ), maybe because this
was a pair of old Mangers , they needed mor treble , but the newer ones
are okay . I like the Manger more than the Lowthers .

Juergen
Hi!

This is very intriguing! Certainly the Mangers with the treble turned up are very good, but it's shocking to have to apply so much treble control on the amplifier! To what extent is the treble of the newer units better?

Many thanks

David P
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th December 2010, 11:11 PM   #8
tnargs is offline tnargs  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
As per the FR posted, the newer ones should not need the treble boosted.

The big issue with the Mangers is the high degree of ripple caused by internal resonances, present at most frequencies but most obvious in the 700Hz-to-4000Hz region, where the ear is at its most sensitive.
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th December 2010, 12:02 AM   #9
diyAudio Member
 
Joachim Gerhard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
You get a better handle on the Manger when you measure in the time domain. It has a very fast risetime of 13usec and is phase linear over a wide range. See the step response measurement from the Manger website. The treble response from 1989 on to my knowlage is slightly disfuse field equalised on axis over 10kHz to get the correct treble balance in room. The model for this is the Schoeps MK2S microphone. Older units have a Samaruim Kobald magnet and never ones very strong neodymium tablets to improve sensitivity. When that transition took place i do not know.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Schoeps MK2S.jpg (88.5 KB, 338 views)
File Type: jpg Manger Step.jpg (84.2 KB, 332 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th December 2010, 08:52 AM   #10
hm is offline hm  Europe
diyAudio Member
 
hm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: near Hamburg Germany
Default step response

Hello,
thats right,
look my measurements with Manger 1991,
a measurement from mr Manger,
look the step response,
one of the best,
less highs are an illusion because the Manger has no
high resonanses whatsoever, look the Waterfall,
a Lowther is with the wizzer cone much more difficult.
basstubamess
here Lowther measurements
http://www.aer-original.com/html/hob..._jan_2002.html
Attached Images
File Type: jpg basstuba mess2.jpg (112.1 KB, 308 views)
File Type: jpg basstuba mess.equar1.jpg (67.1 KB, 302 views)
__________________
http://www.hm-moreart.de

Last edited by hm; 15th December 2010 at 08:56 AM.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Manger transducer ..... ergo Multi-Way 3 29th January 2011 11:03 PM
Manger phase_accurate Multi-Way 84 19th November 2007 04:20 PM
Manger Sidekick Mattias S Planars & Exotics 1 23rd July 2004 11:54 AM
Manger....... tbla Planars & Exotics 9 11th January 2004 08:13 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 08:49 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2