Crazed newbie feeling bipolar

jimbro · 3rd December 2010, 11:15 PM

First let me say how lucky I feel for having found this forum and how much I admire all of you who give so much of their time and knowledge and I hope I can contribute in some small way in the future.
Next week I'll be starting my first project -bofu half changs. They will end up in the living room or my shop. I'm converting a spare bedroom into a 'listening room'. It is 10' X 17'. The speakers will be on the 10' wall and my ears will be 13' away from the wall. I will also do some HT in there. I have a a lot of flexibility for amps. I just scored a Yamaha receiver with 7 pre-outs and I have two 50's Fisher integrated amps with pre-out/power-in. I could also go with t-amps or a SET for the mains. My listening tastes are all over the map. I'm looking for dynamics and some of that mid-range magic I hear about which brings me to bipoles I don't mind using subs if I have to and have even toyed with using the half changs as bass horns with a sub for HT. Told you I was crazed.
So I'd like some opinions please.
Which bipole configuration would you recommend for this application, if any? Back firing, side firing or up firing?
I've been looking at bipole metronomes. How would you describe the sound of the fe126en vs the el70 versions?
I have to admit though that I like horns. Would the Lotus or Coniston^2 be appropriate?
I appreciate any and all inputs. I have a feeling I'll end up building several different cabs before I'm done. Thanks!

planet10 · 4th December 2010, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbro

Which bipole configuration would you recommend for this application, if any? Back firing, side firing or up firing?

Side or top firing is my personal preference unless you can pull them way out from the walls.

Quote:

I've been looking at bipole metronomes. How would you describe the sound of the fe126en vs the el70 versions?

Just got a 1st review of FE126eN Mets today, they were built 3 years ago. He likes them. Another client has now built 3 pair of bipole EL70eN mets -- they keep dissappearing on him (as friends say, can i have a set of those)?

Each is totally different, EL70 probably better suited to a met, and will have a larger range top & bottom. El70 is what i call a bass monster. The bipole mets sent John's sub into storage. It is happier with a larger range of amps.

Quote:

Would the Lotus or Coniston^2 be appropriate?

Yes & yes. althou the latter would be kinda close to have the horns integrate.

dave

jimbro · 4th December 2010, 02:28 AM

Thanks - there is one more question I should have asked. I can see the benefit of having all four drivers eNabled but would phase lugs be necessary for all?

planet10 · 4th December 2010, 02:43 AM

Phase plugs are not recommended for the small drivers... it kills the HF.

dave

jimbro · 4th December 2010, 02:54 AM

oh

hm · 4th December 2010, 09:00 AM

Hello,
take a look on my double horns,
the Kornett would be one of my bipolar
solutions.
The TB 4" 1320 is one of the best 4"
with phase plug and much more stroke
as any Fostex.

chris661 · 4th December 2010, 09:40 AM

With regards to the phase plugs...

If one driver is firing upwards, I'd avoid a phase plug due to the risk of dust/crap getting into the motor assembly. I'd have to contradict Dave about the lack of HF. Mine (fully enabled and phase plugged FE126E) have plenty of treble extension, making my headphones sound dull in comparison. Then again, I'm 16 so young ears help somewhat, and of course it's all a matter of personal taste. Whatever, they sound lovely. I'd expect that, given a large BLH, they'd be fine for music, without a subwoofer. For home theatre, I'd add a subwoofer for the extra low bass (<30Hz).

Still, a high efficiency full-ranger (I use one per side, but bipole could be interesting) driven by a SET amplifier is something to behold. Not the most dynamic listen, but very impressive for smaller scale music, choirs etc.

Chris

Scottmoose · 4th December 2010, 10:43 AM

It's more a question of dispersion / narrowing power response with increasing frequency Chris. A small FR driver is basically an oversized tweeter; it's rare for them to benefit in this respect from phase plugs, and particularly off-axis, it may indeed be worse, as Dave points out. When it comes to larger drivers, it's a different story. Or can be. Depends on size, profile, useable BW & a host of other factors.

jimbro · 4th December 2010, 11:34 AM

That Kornet is interesting, HM. Only BLH bipole I've seen but I'm sure there are others. About how far from the back wall is the front of the speaker?

hm · 4th December 2010, 03:45 PM

Hello,
look here:
kornett
Kornettplan

3rd December 2010, 11:15 PM	#1
jimbro diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: somewhere in Texas	Crazed newbie feeling bipolar First let me say how lucky I feel for having found this forum and how much I admire all of you who give so much of their time and knowledge and I hope I can contribute in some small way in the future. Next week I'll be starting my first project -bofu half changs. They will end up in the living room or my shop. I'm converting a spare bedroom into a 'listening room'. It is 10' X 17'. The speakers will be on the 10' wall and my ears will be 13' away from the wall. I will also do some HT in there. I have a a lot of flexibility for amps. I just scored a Yamaha receiver with 7 pre-outs and I have two 50's Fisher integrated amps with pre-out/power-in. I could also go with t-amps or a SET for the mains. My listening tastes are all over the map. I'm looking for dynamics and some of that mid-range magic I hear about which brings me to bipoles I don't mind using subs if I have to and have even toyed with using the half changs as bass horns with a sub for HT. Told you I was crazed. So I'd like some opinions please. Which bipole configuration would you recommend for this application, if any? Back firing, side firing or up firing? I've been looking at bipole metronomes. How would you describe the sound of the fe126en vs the el70 versions? I have to admit though that I like horns. Would the Lotus or Coniston^2 be appropriate? I appreciate any and all inputs. I have a feeling I'll end up building several different cabs before I'm done. Thanks!

4th December 2010, 02:43 AM	#4
planet10 frugal-phile(tm) diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III Blog Entries: 4	Phase plugs are not recommended for the small drivers... it kills the HF. dave __________________ community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi p10-hifi forum here at diyA

4th December 2010, 09:40 AM	#7
chris661 diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Lancashire Blog Entries: 7	With regards to the phase plugs... If one driver is firing upwards, I'd avoid a phase plug due to the risk of dust/crap getting into the motor assembly. I'd have to contradict Dave about the lack of HF. Mine (fully enabled and phase plugged FE126E) have plenty of treble extension, making my headphones sound dull in comparison. Then again, I'm 16 so young ears help somewhat, and of course it's all a matter of personal taste. Whatever, they sound lovely. I'd expect that, given a large BLH, they'd be fine for music, without a subwoofer. For home theatre, I'd add a subwoofer for the extra low bass (<30Hz). Still, a high efficiency full-ranger (I use one per side, but bipole could be interesting) driven by a SET amplifier is something to behold. Not the most dynamic listen, but very impressive for smaller scale music, choirs etc. Chris __________________ "Throwing parts at a failure is like throwing sponges at a rainstorm." - Enzo My setup: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi...tang-band.html

4th December 2010, 03:45 PM	#10
hm diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: near Hamburg Germany	kornett Hello, look here: kornett Kornettplan __________________ http://www.hm-moreart.de

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4th December 2010, 02:28 AM	#3
jimbro diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: somewhere in Texas	Thanks - there is one more question I should have asked. I can see the benefit of having all four drivers eNabled but would phase lugs be necessary for all?

4th December 2010, 02:54 AM	#5
jimbro diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: somewhere in Texas	oh

4th December 2010, 10:43 AM	#8
Scottmoose diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK	It's more a question of dispersion / narrowing power response with increasing frequency Chris. A small FR driver is basically an oversized tweeter; it's rare for them to benefit in this respect from phase plugs, and particularly off-axis, it may indeed be worse, as Dave points out. When it comes to larger drivers, it's a different story. Or can be. Depends on size, profile, useable BW & a host of other factors.

4th December 2010, 11:34 AM	#9
jimbro diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: somewhere in Texas	That Kornet is interesting, HM. Only BLH bipole I've seen but I'm sure there are others. About how far from the back wall is the front of the speaker?

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