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Old 8th September 2010, 03:34 AM   #1
rhn is offline rhn  Canada
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Default First Project

Looking at building my first set of FR speakers. I have been intrigued by the concept for years but have never (knowingly) listened to quality pair of full rangers.
I was thinking of starting off small using a pair of el70 in the Woden Designed Derwents -> Link <-
Other designs being considered, Planet 10 micro towers (singe or dual drivers) -> Link <-
and the Mar-Kel70 -> Link <-
I am open to any recommendations, caveats, reviews etc.

Room placement is an issue along with over all size (WAF). Thinking a single driver cabinet will be more forgiving? Or could a dual driver cabinet work pulled a foot off the wall?

Current speakers Large Advents and KEF Calindas (swap them in out, can't have four speakers in one room...) powered by NAD 304, Rega 3 with Grace 707 tonearm for the vinyl collection. Bought the Advents new in 74, Calinda's a couple of years later) Yes a Frugal File. Listen almost anything excluding the over bassed techno, Hip-hop, Rap. Prefer Folk, Bluegrass and Classical.

I do not know what to expect sonic-ally from a full range speaker, especially with a comparatively small driver, but I do know I will enjoy building the cabinets. Who knows were this will lead to?
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Old 8th September 2010, 04:05 AM   #2
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Sounds like you could have bought that whole hifi from me when i worked retail hifi (except that we didn't get Advent till 77, and that NAD came after i left).

My godson has a set of frugal-phile(tm) speakers with a set of 8" FRs in a set of Calinda cabs i repurposed (and may well have sold when new)

Certainly the EL70 (stock or tricked out) are close to hand.

Any of those cabs will give you a good introduction to FR. I've not heard Derwent, but all the Spawn BVRs we've done have turned out well, and field reports have been positive.

Mar-Kel & microTower i have compared. The former has more finesse, the latter, especially with 2 drivers, has more slam, and will move more air. You would beed to go with a castle style or 2nd driver on the adjacent side if you can't pull it further out from the wall.

Mar-Kel is probably the more difficult build, & needs a stand (the 22" or 26" Paradigm stands are a bargin)

dave
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Old 8th September 2010, 09:28 AM   #3
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Why don't you do something with the bigger units - 6.5" or 8"
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Old 8th September 2010, 10:02 AM   #4
hm is offline hm  Europe
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Default rhn

"Or could a dual driver cabinet work pulled a foot off the wall?"

sure,
look my KORNETT, no only good WAF,
also measurements and imp, best soundstage, down to 34 Hz
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Old 8th September 2010, 02:05 PM   #5
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Wow, those designs are beautiful and inspiring! I love the Windermere.
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Old 8th September 2010, 03:31 PM   #6
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Regarding the Mar-Kel70...
I recently built a pair and i am very satisfied with them. They really do play louder than i first thought they would and they play any sort of music without problem (well, for rock you want a sub). I built mine in 12mm particle board. It was supposed to be just a test build and i was supposed to build in 18mm bb ply but i think they're good enough atm.
I haven't sorted out the damping and properly fixed the bracing and sealing of the box but i'd call them a good set of speakers. It might not be the easiest speaker to build for the beginner but it's a good challenge.

But i do have some questions though, to Dave ofcourse.
What Paradigm stands are you talking about? Could you link to them?
Is it important to sort of "lower down" the speaker in the baffle or is it okay to just make it sit "ontop" of it? And is it important to chamfer the inside of the mounting hole (on the back of the baffle)?

But there is one problem with the EL70 driver though... The screw holes are a bit close to the driver so the mounting hole will need lots of work to get it right and not too big to mess it all up.
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Old 8th September 2010, 04:16 PM   #7
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rullknufs View Post
Regarding the Mar-Kel70...
I recently built a pair and i am very satisfied with them. They really do play louder than i first thought they would and they play any sort of music without problem (well, for rock you want a sub). I built mine in 12mm particle board. It was supposed to be just a test build and i was supposed to build in 18mm bb ply but i think they're good enough atm.
I haven't sorted out the damping and properly fixed the bracing and sealing of the box but i'd call them a good set of speakers. It might not be the easiest speaker to build for the beginner but it's a good challenge.

But i do have some questions though, to Dave ofcourse.
will I do?

Quote:

What Paradigm stands are you talking about? Could you link to them?
I could find no easy link on the manufacturer's web site, but look at item S-18 or S-22 on page 3 of attached PDF. To be honest, there are probably any number of similar products available more locally to you, or they could even be DIY'ed ( some MDF, ABS plumbing pipe and threaded "readi-rod")


OK, the file's too big to attach, try this:

http://www.paradigm.com/index.php?op...d=328&Itemid=8

Quote:

Is it important to sort of "lower down" the speaker in the baffle or is it okay to just make it sit "ontop" of it? And is it important to chamfer the inside of the mounting hole (on the back of the baffle)?
If you're describing a "rebate" for flush mounting, to be honest I don't think there's a clear consensus on that, but I like it for cosmetic reasons. It's certainly possible to achieve by hand, but fortunately I have access to a CNC machine and very crafty operator.

As for the second, for drivers with as shallow a mounting depth as all Mark Audio (or the smaller Fostex etc.), I think it's very important, but it does conflict with your next point

Quote:
But there is one problem with the EL70 driver though... The screw holes are a bit close to the driver so the mounting hole will need lots of work to get it right and not too big to mess it all up.
yup - even on the Alpair 7 with its very wide and thick flange, fortunately there are hole saws available in sizes close to those needed for the smaller drivers - just be sure to securely clamp the workpiece to drill press or workbench
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Last edited by chrisb; 8th September 2010 at 04:19 PM. Reason: broken link
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Old 8th September 2010, 04:31 PM   #8
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Quote:
will I do?
Sure, why not?


Quote:
I could find no easy link on the manufacturer's web site, but look at item S-18 or S-22 on page 3 of attached PDF. To be honest, there are probably any number of similar products available more locally to you, or they could even be DIY'ed ( some MDF, ABS plumbing pipe and threaded "readi-rod")


OK, the file's too big to attach, try this:

http://www.paradigm.com/index.php?op...d=328&Itemid=8
Well. I googled some Paradigm stands and they appear to cost 3-4 times as much the speakers themselves... So DIYing is more of an option. But i'm thinking of a stand that can hold both a subwoofer AND the Mar-Kel70. Will probably be an interesting piece...

Quote:
If you're describing a "rebate" for flush mounting, to be honest I don't think there's a clear consensus on that, but I like it for cosmetic reasons. It's certainly possible to achieve by hand, but fortunately I have access to a CNC machine and very crafty operator.
Okay, but i think it might be a problem with my 12mm baffle. There would be like nothing to screw the driver to.

Quote:
As for the second, for drivers with as shallow a mounting depth as all Mark Audio (or the smaller Fostex etc.), I think it's very important, but it does conflict with your next point
Chamfering the backside of the baffle? It will also be a problem because of the thin baffle. And unfortunately it's not that very easy to replace it with a thicker one... But maybe it's possible to put another piece of 12mm particleboard inside the cabinet, and then lower down the driver in the baffle and chamfer the backside? Or will it f**k up the volume too much?

Quote:
yup - even on the Alpair 7 with its very wide and thick flange, fortunately there are hole saws available in sizes close to those needed for the smaller drivers - just be sure to securely clamp the workpiece to drill press or workbench
Well, i didn't have any hole saw so i did it with a jigsaw and i cut it a little smaller than needed but it was actually well enough. Just had to cut out for the... Basket sort of thing, and that's where the problem is. The screw hole is like 1-2mm from the basket. If you cut 1mm too far you can't put a screw there. It happened to me once... :S
But Dave told me he had mailed (is it Bob?) about it and they would sort of take a look at it and maybe fix it or so.

And there was another little question. It's about dampening. Seems like i wont get an answer in my thread (with a completely wrong name, lol) about how i should damp them with my 90mm rockwool. I could sort of mash it to pieces and stuff it in but i guess it's better to put in pieces. Right now i got two small "towers" of rockwool inside, about 5x5xheight of speaker on each side of the bracing and 10-15cm from the driver. How much am i really supposed to use, and where?
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Old 8th September 2010, 04:35 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rullknufs View Post
Well. I googled some Paradigm stands and they appear to cost 3-4 times as much the speakers themselves...
The local dealer sells them for something like $130/pr, a real bargin in stands. It helps that Paradigm is a Canadian company... as the OP is in Greater Vancouver, the suggestion is more of a local thing.

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Old 8th September 2010, 04:40 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
The local dealer sells them for something like $130/pr, a real bargin in stands. It helps that Paradigm is a Canadian company... as the OP is in Greater Vancouver, the suggestion is more of a local thing.

dave
Yes, might be.
I didn't know that Paradigm was Canadian. I've heard lots of good words about their products.

Do you have any DIY suggestion for a stand that can hold both a subwoofer and Mar-Kel70s?
Or a 50l box that can be around 70cm tall?

And what about the dampening in my Mar-Kel?
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