Great.
I won't hold my breath given that you're working on other things, but good to know they may appear at some point. I know that feeling well. I like OB, but box speakers and horns will always be my main interest. They're more fun to work with (at least, I think so) with all the variables involved.
Well, you know I and a lot of people here / on your forum will be happy to pay even if you crank the price up. More people not paying though? That @;$$#$ me off. Fire me a PM if there's anything I can do to help out.
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Hi Martin,
I would be delighted to contact people not in compliance, and help nudge them into proper licensing.
I am really looking forward to your next-gen BLH work, and if there's a chance others will ruin it, I want to volunteer right now and help in any way I can.
Incidentally, you could do what AJ Horn does -- make all calculations conditional on the user entering a certain unique value. In AJ Horn's case, it generates a string, then the user sends the string to AJ Horn, and gets back another string. Only when that second string is entered will the sheet function.
I would be delighted to contact people not in compliance, and help nudge them into proper licensing.
I am really looking forward to your next-gen BLH work, and if there's a chance others will ruin it, I want to volunteer right now and help in any way I can.
Incidentally, you could do what AJ Horn does -- make all calculations conditional on the user entering a certain unique value. In AJ Horn's case, it generates a string, then the user sends the string to AJ Horn, and gets back another string. Only when that second string is entered will the sheet function.
Earlier experince has had the Fostex spec being optimistic. As it so happens yesterday afternoon i measured 20 stock FE126En. Drivers had my usual test bench break-in (low level nusic for 200-400 hrs).
Average Fs measured 92.96 with a range of 92.45 to 93.53 (note: if the weather changes the numbers change). I use the measured data to match driver pairs within a 1/4 dB.
dave
Ya know buddy, it's hard to give you the benefit of the doubt when your translated "tone of voice" comes across as arrogantly as your last sentence, but I'll try.
(yes, I've been practicing my own brand of passive aggression for so long, it's second nature)
While you've clearly taken time to compile lots of data as presented in the graphics, your website is not the most easily navigable around. Some interesting reading, a lot of with which many DIYers would agree.
My clearly not well parsed question was "what are control conditions of these measurements?" All that I can tell from the text is that you use a microphone - that's fine, but are there any other methods involved in gathering data for "haptic verifications"? If you're asking others to present a comparable data set of their own designs, there are details of your test conditions it would be helpful to know. Those would include the types of all measuring devices and interpreting software, amount of smoothing involved in Frequency response graphs, and I think importantly in the case of any rear loaded horn, the size of room and number and proximity to boundaries.
Congratulations on the sale(s), but what is the relevance of "sorry, my Kornet is sold to the first listener" to my queries?
oh chrisp,
i made measurement real, you can see distance, angle, watt, imp, what do you want?
i waiting for your measurements of the FHmk3 not simus.
my info is better as a few world sellers and i am a hobby man!!
let us see the real measurement, please!
I didn´t made my measurements, my carpenter made it and i must pay for it!!
so where is the problem?
"relevance of "sorry"- i can not compair it to FHmk3.
i made measurement real, you can see distance, angle, watt, imp, what do you want?
i waiting for your measurements of the FHmk3 not simus.
my info is better as a few world sellers and i am a hobby man!!
let us see the real measurement, please!
I didn´t made my measurements, my carpenter made it and i must pay for it!!
so where is the problem?
"relevance of "sorry"- i can not compair it to FHmk3.
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Ah, so you admit that comparisons between FH3 and your box are essentially irrelevant Horst, as the two cabinets have completely different design priorities. Your box clearly is not designed to be as physically simple as possible and possess the absolute minimum number of parts (as FH3 was), and it even employs two (rather than a single) drive units. By analogy, that makes about as much sense as comparing a BMW to a Morgan.
So, Horst, given that it must be obvious to the average iguana that your box and FH3 are designed for different things, could you please tell us what you are trying to prove here? At the moment, it appears to be the case that you are deliberately attacking the cabinet and all those behind it / who build it simply because it does not happen to adhere to your own design priorities. Please understand something. If we had wished to design a relatively complicated box with two drive units, we would have designed a relatively complicated box with two drive units. But we didn't. We wished to make a box with one drive unit that was physically as simple as possible, yet still provide reasonable performance. I refer you to the feedback on this forum on the last point.
So, Horst, given that it must be obvious to the average iguana that your box and FH3 are designed for different things, could you please tell us what you are trying to prove here? At the moment, it appears to be the case that you are deliberately attacking the cabinet and all those behind it / who build it simply because it does not happen to adhere to your own design priorities. Please understand something. If we had wished to design a relatively complicated box with two drive units, we would have designed a relatively complicated box with two drive units. But we didn't. We wished to make a box with one drive unit that was physically as simple as possible, yet still provide reasonable performance. I refer you to the feedback on this forum on the last point.
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Continuing from the MathCAD modelled response of FH3 with the FE126En I posted earlier, here is a series of similar plots for a variety of different drive units.
A few points.
-Conditions are identical to the aforementioned FE126En graphs.
-I have not optimised the cabinet damping to the specific drivers in these models (primarily because I can think of other ways to spend my Friday evening )
-The in-room response will of course vary depending on exactly where you position the cabinet. Conditions I consistently used are repeated on each set of graphs.
First up: with the Fostex FX120.
A few points.
-Conditions are identical to the aforementioned FE126En graphs.
-I have not optimised the cabinet damping to the specific drivers in these models (primarily because I can think of other ways to spend my Friday evening
) -The in-room response will of course vary depending on exactly where you position the cabinet. Conditions I consistently used are repeated on each set of graphs.
First up: with the Fostex FX120.
Attachments
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oh, horsy , it's chrisb please
T and Y are next to each other on the keyboard, P and B - not so muchSince the designs in question are horns with boundary loaded mouths, I was asking about room dimensions and most particularly enclosure location with respect to the walls.
Unless you have evidence to prove that doesn't matter?
fair enough - although I'll repeat what I've said before - I personally don't "do" measurements ( or particularly care so much), for now we're both at the mercy of others - perhaps not for long
Now see what I mean? That sounds not just a little arrogant - but I'll allow that since the clumsy grammar is likely an artifact of translation or learning of ESL, so might the perception of your intent. That's what we call a mea culpa.
The issue of the boundary between "DIY hobby" and commercial venture to which you frequently refer is a bit of a nebulous area; unless one is able to support themselves/family solely, I'd classify the enterprise, with which many of us entertain ourselves, as more of an ancillary than primary nature.
see above
I trust you're referring to the measurement on cabinet plans drawings, not speaker performance measurements? If so, that doesn't make a lot of sense - what plans did he have to work from, an Oktoberfest beer soaked cocktail napkin? sorry, that's sarcastic even for me. I won't yet voice my thoughts if that is not the case.
fair enough, but if you were interested in anything other than a public exercise in polemics, I'm sure you could arrange for an audition with your customer or any local builder of your designs and a FH3 (which can easily be built by an experienced carpenter in less than a day)
p.s. upon reading Scott's latest series of posts, let me confirm that he is both more than capable of both designing more elaborate speaker enclosures than the FH3 (some of which I've built) and continuing this pi$$ing contest as long as you like
sorry if that last part doesn't translate well
cheers for now
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It is interesting how many similar sized and similar T/S property drivers can be used in the same FH Mk3 enclosure and produce a similar SPL response. I am seeing the same thing with my small Fostex horn design. Any differences in the low frequency response can be tweaked by moving the speaker closer or away from the corner. No BSC required. Also, the responses above 200 Hz are all so similar since they are essentially the driver and the nearby boundary reflections.
Martin
Martin
Hi Scottmoose,
i didn´t compair, MJK? want it posts away,
does you answer will show us:
you never done a real measurement?
Whow what an interesting fact, that so many people
will show me that they don´t know something.
What i want to mention is coming out clearly, every one can think about it.
Good luck with such a work based on simus.
chrisb what you wrote sounds chrisp.
i didn´t compair, MJK? want it posts away,
does you answer will show us:
you never done a real measurement?
Whow what an interesting fact, that so many people
will show me that they don´t know something.
What i want to mention is coming out clearly, every one can think about it.
Good luck with such a work based on simus.
chrisb what you wrote sounds chrisp.
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Hello All
May I make a few comments having read ALL of the FH thread and posts and most of the linked material over the last few weeks ..
1. The FH project is brilliant because of the shared and open information and so many AMAZING people contributing to the design.
2. The FH project is HUGE and could I dare suggest about reach critical mass but there are a number of missing pieces to the puzzle ....
- An FAQ
- A summary of the current build changes
- Lastly an easy link to the current build design
- An indication of how many FH3 are in build/Completed/rebuilt state
The tipping point I believe is this simple and stunning post - http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/172937-frugel-horn-mk3-beta-builds-16.html#post2453603
3. The FH project is in beta but when will FH3 be ready to step out and be published on the FH website? Realising that there is so much effort and time required for this to happen how can we the wider *FH community* help with this?
The FH3 is my spring/summer build project and I would like to publish the details of the build and finished item on the FH3 Beta thread. So hopefully the details of my mistakes can prevent people making the same! First questions posted !!
Finally please understand that the responses given to someone appearing to rant through Google Translator are very useful indeed to the newer members of the FH community. This is due to the nature the detailed responses given, opening the design and the decisions behind it.
Miles
May I make a few comments having read ALL of the FH thread and posts and most of the linked material over the last few weeks ..
1. The FH project is brilliant because of the shared and open information and so many AMAZING people contributing to the design.
2. The FH project is HUGE and could I dare suggest about reach critical mass but there are a number of missing pieces to the puzzle ....
- An FAQ
- A summary of the current build changes
- Lastly an easy link to the current build design
- An indication of how many FH3 are in build/Completed/rebuilt state
The tipping point I believe is this simple and stunning post - http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/172937-frugel-horn-mk3-beta-builds-16.html#post2453603
3. The FH project is in beta but when will FH3 be ready to step out and be published on the FH website? Realising that there is so much effort and time required for this to happen how can we the wider *FH community* help with this?
The FH3 is my spring/summer build project and I would like to publish the details of the build and finished item on the FH3 Beta thread. So hopefully the details of my mistakes can prevent people making the same! First questions posted !!
Finally please understand that the responses given to someone appearing to rant through Google Translator are very useful indeed to the newer members of the FH community. This is due to the nature the detailed responses given, opening the design and the decisions behind it.
Miles
This is all me getting time to get documents tarted up, and the pages on the website built. It has really progressed out of beta.
As to how many built... i'm not sure. I've seen pictures of 3 or 4 and heard mention of a few others. A FH3 gallery thread would be a good idea -- no speaker too ugly
Someone could write a FAQ. Most of what would go in, just needs to be strained from this thread. I'd insist on final pass, but if this page was poached to use as a framework (and it wasn't passed thru a web editor that didn't turn it into trash) there wouldn't be much left to do.
And when you say tipping point, i think there is a down the road possibility of this a phase change. This happened with chip amps with BrianGT & Peter Daniel put together the 1st boards/parts kits. FH3 flat-paks are the key. Local supply in UK & Australia look to be coming together. I have US & Canada covered (but even thou it might cut into short term sales, would help out other cottage manufacturers to cover all corners more locally).
From there it isn't far from local flat-pak assemblers that can deliver speakers already built, with way less fat in shipping and multiple dealer/distrib markups.
dave
Among the threads on here that have the most lookers are the BIB and Needle, one must assume that a fair proportion of those people have built them, because they are easy to make.
If anyone cares to look at my Needle page [link below] they will see that I have the very minimum of tools. I will make a pair of FH3's I will get every panel cut square at my local DIY Shed to begin with and I will use a handsaw, an old powered jigsaw and some heavy engineering bricks to make them. I will photograph every stage and put up a page with the pics and some text so that other people can do the same.
I am going to do this because Colin [Toppsy] very kindly invited me round to have a listen to his, I preferred the CHP-70's to the Fostex drivers and those are the ones I shall buy. The sound from these cabinets is so easy it's a joy to listen to, after being at Colins for an hour or so I found that I'd stopped listening to them and was listening to the music as though they weren't there at all.
I think in my small way I have encouraged people to have a go at the Needles I hope to do that for the FH3's as well.
My warmest wishes to all who have worked so hard on this project.
Jim
If anyone cares to look at my Needle page [link below] they will see that I have the very minimum of tools. I will make a pair of FH3's I will get every panel cut square at my local DIY Shed to begin with and I will use a handsaw, an old powered jigsaw and some heavy engineering bricks to make them. I will photograph every stage and put up a page with the pics and some text so that other people can do the same.
I am going to do this because Colin [Toppsy] very kindly invited me round to have a listen to his, I preferred the CHP-70's to the Fostex drivers and those are the ones I shall buy. The sound from these cabinets is so easy it's a joy to listen to, after being at Colins for an hour or so I found that I'd stopped listening to them and was listening to the music as though they weren't there at all.
I think in my small way I have encouraged people to have a go at the Needles I hope to do that for the FH3's as well.
My warmest wishes to all who have worked so hard on this project.
Jim
I love that experience when everything is just right and it's all about the involvement in the music.. A great endorsement to Colin's build, room, and all the efforts of those involved in the design of the FH3
I think it's really interesting when you peruse all the different single driver horn designs out there, and you see some so complex and involved that they may scare some of us more inexperienced woodworkers away, and perhaps make us never bother to try and build something in the first place.. Then comes along easy although not perfect designs (what is perfect anyways) like the BIB and this new FH3, that allows many of us to experience the pride of achieving a relatively easy build that's not a usual box with a plastic tube, aka ported etc..
So here we have two fairly simple designs that are not just another sealed or ported box, will provide an excellent introduction to this style of cab design, and when set up correctly can achieve the experience that was described in the quote above by Jim..
Sounds good to me
Hi all,
Here is my cutting drawing from an 8Ft x 4Ft sheet of 15mm;
It can be cut on one of those vertical cutting thingies in the Do It Yourself sheds.
6 pieces 140mm x 4Ft
2 pieces 750mm x 4Ft
I have left enough room to cut the angle between the sides to arrive at the correct dimensions. There is about 100mm of scrap at the right hand end enough to take up the saw width.
I will make the other cuts with a hand saw or powered jig saw and plane and sand them to the exact sizes.
Doesn't look too difficult
Jim
Here is my cutting drawing from an 8Ft x 4Ft sheet of 15mm;
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
It can be cut on one of those vertical cutting thingies in the Do It Yourself sheds.
6 pieces 140mm x 4Ft
2 pieces 750mm x 4Ft
I have left enough room to cut the angle between the sides to arrive at the correct dimensions. There is about 100mm of scrap at the right hand end enough to take up the saw width.
I will make the other cuts with a hand saw or powered jig saw and plane and sand them to the exact sizes.
Doesn't look too difficult
Jim
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