They'll probably be a lot of hate on this one but:
Rough dimensions for the B20's. Similar purportions from the side, a little wider in the front to accomodate the volume these drivers need.
Main cabinet internal dimensions (HxWxD) 42 x 9.52 x 8.64 which, with the slant volume, comes out to a little less then 2 ft^3. I'd be a little more precise but Im not sure what the slot size would be. Yeah, it's large but not as huge as someone suggested earlier.
Or am I way off, where the volume of this cab need not necessarily be ~ to the speaker's vas to still produce some decent bass? Anyone care to sim these numbers, or at least a quick response as to why or why not this could work. I have enough 4 inchers in my collection- I'd like to try this one in an 8"
Time was, I'd just build the thing and tweak it until it either worked or didn't. Time consuming but the real fun was in the build. My wife, however, doesn't see it that way and is starting to think I'm a little squirrely about these builds so I've got to be a little more sective about what I build in these days.
For the less brave- could something be done to accomodate a Pioneer A11? If not for me- do it for Gychang
Rough dimensions for the B20's. Similar purportions from the side, a little wider in the front to accomodate the volume these drivers need.
Main cabinet internal dimensions (HxWxD) 42 x 9.52 x 8.64 which, with the slant volume, comes out to a little less then 2 ft^3. I'd be a little more precise but Im not sure what the slot size would be. Yeah, it's large but not as huge as someone suggested earlier.
Or am I way off, where the volume of this cab need not necessarily be ~ to the speaker's vas to still produce some decent bass? Anyone care to sim these numbers, or at least a quick response as to why or why not this could work. I have enough 4 inchers in my collection- I'd like to try this one in an 8"
Time was, I'd just build the thing and tweak it until it either worked or didn't. Time consuming but the real fun was in the build. My wife, however, doesn't see it that way and is starting to think I'm a little squirrely about these builds so I've got to be a little more sective about what I build in these days.
For the less brave- could something be done to accomodate a Pioneer A11? If not for me- do it for Gychang
... the volume of this cab need not necessarily be ~ to the speaker's vas to still produce some decent bass?
...could something be done to accomodate a Pioneer A11? If not for me- do it for Gychang
A box is typically proportional to Vas but Qt, Fs, box style (at least) also play a role.
One of the beta builders has said he will be trying the little Pioneer.
dave
I'm also playing around with the A11 on this design... Finally a fellow DIYer willing to see what kind of mods he can do with a Chevy Vega rather then trying to impress us with the "silver naked lady" decals he stuck on the window of his Cadillac Escalade.
With all due respect to likes of Bob Brines, Planet 10, and 'Zilla Audio and the other 'pioneers' in world of Audo DIY: some of us are- be it economically, access to proper tools, or building skill challenged and are not ready to plunk down $45 a driver plus another $100 for a couple of sheets of plywood. Others may find that the challenge of ringing the sound out of a "bargain" and waving there finger in the faces of main stream manufacturers proclaiming, " I did it better then you and a lot cheaper too!" to be extremely gratifying. For whatever the reason, we ecourage that fellow intrepid explorer to forge ahead, dispite that if-it's-not-a-Fostex-or-Alpair- it-can't-be-done mentality I am seeing around here a lot lately.
Suffice it to say you can't pull a $1000 sound from a $20 speaker: there are limitations. I guess my beef is with the merry-go-round of designs featuring the same ol' same ol' offerings from Alpair and Fostex. There are many affordable options out there that never seemed to be given a chance in this forum.
I'll share a few examples that may be of interest to our fellow cheaps- budget minded DIYers
4" MCM Part #55-1854 has similar specs- albeit not dead on balls accurate--as the FE103A but can be had for $13.95. More bass, less hiss.
MCM Audio Select 5'' Shielded Aluminum Cone Woofer | 55-1855 (551855) | MCM Audio Select
MCM Audio Select 5 1/4'' Die Cast Aluminum Cone Woofer | 55-2669 (552669) | MCM Audio Select
Sorry about the rant. As I said before- total props go out to everyone involved in these projects. Let's just not lose sight as to why many of us DIY rather then go main stream when we build. For all those who 'must' use a Fostex- I offer a challenge that you step out of the box and "slum it" for a week or two. You might find it quitre refreshing.
With all due respect to likes of Bob Brines, Planet 10, and 'Zilla Audio and the other 'pioneers' in world of Audo DIY: some of us are- be it economically, access to proper tools, or building skill challenged and are not ready to plunk down $45 a driver plus another $100 for a couple of sheets of plywood. Others may find that the challenge of ringing the sound out of a "bargain" and waving there finger in the faces of main stream manufacturers proclaiming, " I did it better then you and a lot cheaper too!" to be extremely gratifying. For whatever the reason, we ecourage that fellow intrepid explorer to forge ahead, dispite that if-it's-not-a-Fostex-or-Alpair- it-can't-be-done mentality I am seeing around here a lot lately.
Suffice it to say you can't pull a $1000 sound from a $20 speaker: there are limitations. I guess my beef is with the merry-go-round of designs featuring the same ol' same ol' offerings from Alpair and Fostex. There are many affordable options out there that never seemed to be given a chance in this forum.
I'll share a few examples that may be of interest to our fellow cheaps- budget minded DIYers
4" MCM Part #55-1854 has similar specs- albeit not dead on balls accurate--as the FE103A but can be had for $13.95. More bass, less hiss.
MCM Audio Select 5'' Shielded Aluminum Cone Woofer | 55-1855 (551855) | MCM Audio Select
MCM Audio Select 5 1/4'' Die Cast Aluminum Cone Woofer | 55-2669 (552669) | MCM Audio Select
Sorry about the rant. As I said before- total props go out to everyone involved in these projects. Let's just not lose sight as to why many of us DIY rather then go main stream when we build. For all those who 'must' use a Fostex- I offer a challenge that you step out of the box and "slum it" for a week or two. You might find it quitre refreshing.
I can see that some folks want to try the cheap drivers to see how much they can get out of a project with drivers costing less than $50/pair. It's your project and you should proceed in the manner which will give you the most satisfaction.
However, for me: I spend a couple months puttering around with building the cabinets. I'm not going to use MDF and I have to pay good money for plywood. Then I want it to look good, so I will probably put money into veneer for some of the surfaces as well. Looking at the total cost and time going into the project, it makes no sense to me to go cheap on the drivers. The driver cost is too small a portion of the project to take the risk.
Just my point of view.
Cheers, Jim
However, for me: I spend a couple months puttering around with building the cabinets. I'm not going to use MDF and I have to pay good money for plywood. Then I want it to look good, so I will probably put money into veneer for some of the surfaces as well. Looking at the total cost and time going into the project, it makes no sense to me to go cheap on the drivers. The driver cost is too small a portion of the project to take the risk.
Just my point of view.
Cheers, Jim
Similar to the ripping-music-off-the-internet debate.
If I find the el cheapo version (or I get to actually preview a speaker in it's final form) that sparks my interest, I'll spare no time, effort or expense to replicate it as it's designer intended.
It's sort of discouraging to read, after the time and expense invested, that a poster finds a set of expensive speakers "a bit thin". I prefer a more cut to the chase methodology. If it can't be done- please share why. Maybe you'll get challenged, maybe your well thought out rationale will be heeded and you, in the true spirit of DIY, will save a lot of time and effort for those wishing to lesarn from the expirience of others.
More thinking out of the box, but would it be possible to offer a "lite" version of some of the more popular designs that make the rounds here. I'm sure some of our more "audibly less discerning" readers- or the closet "slummers"-- may find more economical builds more additive and serve as a gateway to mainstream builds offered here.
FWIW- Gychang seems to be the embodiment of what DIY is all about. 'Zilla gets the big thumbs up for all the B20 posts, and Mr. Brines gets a saw dust laden hug for all the technical support (and patience) he seems to have for noobs and obnoxious folks like myself. The Frugel site is most awesome albeit many of it's designs are oriented toward Fostex.
Again- no disrespect intended. I'm one of those who could afford the Fostex drivers(annual trips to Japan and relatives living there so aquiring Fostex drivers is not really an issue), but by preference, has a go at it on the cheap in an effort to kick sand in the face of conventionality.
If I find the el cheapo version (or I get to actually preview a speaker in it's final form) that sparks my interest, I'll spare no time, effort or expense to replicate it as it's designer intended.
It's sort of discouraging to read, after the time and expense invested, that a poster finds a set of expensive speakers "a bit thin". I prefer a more cut to the chase methodology. If it can't be done- please share why. Maybe you'll get challenged, maybe your well thought out rationale will be heeded and you, in the true spirit of DIY, will save a lot of time and effort for those wishing to lesarn from the expirience of others.
More thinking out of the box, but would it be possible to offer a "lite" version of some of the more popular designs that make the rounds here. I'm sure some of our more "audibly less discerning" readers- or the closet "slummers"-- may find more economical builds more additive and serve as a gateway to mainstream builds offered here.
FWIW- Gychang seems to be the embodiment of what DIY is all about. 'Zilla gets the big thumbs up for all the B20 posts, and Mr. Brines gets a saw dust laden hug for all the technical support (and patience) he seems to have for noobs and obnoxious folks like myself. The Frugel site is most awesome albeit many of it's designs are oriented toward Fostex.
Again- no disrespect intended. I'm one of those who could afford the Fostex drivers(annual trips to Japan and relatives living there so aquiring Fostex drivers is not really an issue), but by preference, has a go at it on the cheap in an effort to kick sand in the face of conventionality.
Been there:
FE103A
the toobs Mk 1
(bad experiences with MCM have me swearing off buying anything from them ever again)
You might well be surprised at how well a quality diy build with $20 drivers can do against $1000/pr store bought speakers (ie cheap speakers these days). I've personal experience of <$300/pr diy builds (boxes and everything -- if one treated their own drivers that could be <$200) -- outclassing $6000 at the local hifi emporium.
As to Fostex & Mark Audio getting a lot of attention, one can only do so much, and the stuff that doesn't cut the mustard don't get any more attention. The ones that strike a positive chord get the most attention (one of the reasons for so many FE126/7 designs). You'd be amazed to come look at all the drivers i have. You'll also see me paying more attention to 4-5" FRs. Despite our many differences, Ed Schilling and i agree that this is the sweet spot for FRs.
FH3 has been designed to, unlike most designs, try to accomodate a wide range of drivers. Fill your boots and report back, My queue is chock a block already.
dave
Dave has been very nice to send me the plan for the FH3 & answer my question of using 19mm material. Inspired by GYCHANG I plan to use the 4.5" Pioneer FR drivers I have. I have used Fostex FE126, 206 & 207 before & they are really nice for the money, but for value the Pioneers can't be beat. I can't wait for the big brother of the FH3 to come out so I can stuff them with the 8" Pioneers.
JC
JC
The question on post 95 was expressly to address my concerns with 19mm (3/4") material. That Scott says the half-round should work, it clears off my concern. The extra 4mm per panel should go outside, ie internal dimensions should remain the same.
dave
Currently have a set of 1855's in 600 inch^3 bass reflex cabs (tall) with forward firing 2" x 4.5" ports. Despite the non-conventional science that went into the design, I was floored with the sound these things produce. Creepy, well defined bass for desk top (near field) speakers. Regrettably a bit thin in the lower mids. Stand up well to most music (kid tested on anything featuring a vocal auto tuner). They sound very similar to a nice set of head phones. More the do the job outside the near field range as well.
I'm actually thinking about giving these a shot in the FH3 rather then the A11's. Any reasoning as to why or why not these may be a better candidate? How would they stack up against the driver these were originally intended for?
Sorry about the ranting earlier- had a frustrating senior moment trying to fold the suggested 120" BiB horn length (for A11) into a 42 x 16.6 cab as said horn required a 19.6+" deep cabinet. Follow that up with forgetting the size of your tile cutting blade after driving ten miles to your favorite big box hardware supplier- ack!
FWIW- thanks for your response. I'll try to be a little more patient with you- you all do good work. Not just in building and designing speakers, but by providing a format that encourages one to do for themselves and openly sharing ideas that others would keep so closely guarded out of fear that someone would come along and do it better.
You guys are truly awesome! Thanks for your patience.
I'm actually thinking about giving these a shot in the FH3 rather then the A11's. Any reasoning as to why or why not these may be a better candidate? How would they stack up against the driver these were originally intended for?
Sorry about the ranting earlier- had a frustrating senior moment trying to fold the suggested 120" BiB horn length (for A11) into a 42 x 16.6 cab as said horn required a 19.6+" deep cabinet. Follow that up with forgetting the size of your tile cutting blade after driving ten miles to your favorite big box hardware supplier- ack!
FWIW- thanks for your response. I'll try to be a little more patient with you- you all do good work. Not just in building and designing speakers, but by providing a format that encourages one to do for themselves and openly sharing ideas that others would keep so closely guarded out of fear that someone would come along and do it better.
You guys are truly awesome! Thanks for your patience.
The set of drivers we have tried (eased by the fact that all of them have the same driver cutout) have a wide range of T/S. If your drivers are in the envelope (or close) formed by this set i'd say there is a good chance of sucess, and we may well find outliers that work within reason.
Chris is doing up a set of sub-baffles so we can try twin FF85.
dave
Response for beta testing has been significant. Instead of trying to keep track & keep everyone updated i am going to throw it wide open.
I have created a thread specifically for the purpose of getting to the point where we have a comprehensive set of documents for diyers to be able to execute this speaker.
Please place posts appropriate in this thread, keeping general chatter here.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/172937-frugel-horn-mk3-beta-builds.html
I have just posted an updated document & the SketchUp i did.
dave
I have created a thread specifically for the purpose of getting to the point where we have a comprehensive set of documents for diyers to be able to execute this speaker.
Please place posts appropriate in this thread, keeping general chatter here.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/172937-frugel-horn-mk3-beta-builds.html
I have just posted an updated document & the SketchUp i did.
dave
Hi,
Just trying to get some quotes on cnc routing, is it possible to post the cad/dxf files for the cut sheets referred to in chrisb's post on
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/172605-frugel-horn-mk3-9.html
cheers
jais
Just trying to get some quotes on cnc routing, is it possible to post the cad/dxf files for the cut sheets referred to in chrisb's post on
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/172605-frugel-horn-mk3-9.html
cheers
jais
email me. The cut plans as done would need some alteration for the larger tool bits typically used by a CNC
dave
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