Frugel-Horn Mk3

[Bigun]

My apologies for pushing this OT a little (I'll claim an interest in the twin 3" driver option of FH3!) ..Fostex decided to continue the FE83En - I assume there must be a customer who buys a decent quantity of them to make it worth their while. I thought maybe the application for the FE83 could be as a tweeter but Fostex still advertise it as 'full range'. I'm a bit confused, it seems inconsistent with the comments I've received recently about how awkward the FE83 is to work with given it's current T/S parameters verses the FF85 - the recommendation from Scottmoose is to use the FE83 only in a large horn - in which case I'd be better off using the 126En. I'm not expecting you to know what's going on inside Fostex but is there something that I'm missing here ?

[planet10]

The japanese like the little drivers. I still expect that is where most of the Fostex still go to Japan.

When i was looking at 3" for a small driver the FE8x both needed boxes near as big as the mFonken to get any bass. FF85 was the only one that fit. And it works better all round. With its exotic surround it really is a budget Sigma.

dave

[planet10]

The japanese like the little drivers. I still expect that is where most of the Fostex still go to Japan.

When i was looking at 3" for a small driver the FE8x both needed boxes near as big as the mFonken to get any bass. FF85 was the only one that fit. And it works better all round. With its exotic surround it really is a budget Sigma.

dave

[Scottmoose]

FE83En is a replacement for the FE83E rather than a continuation.

When I say 'large horn,' I mean 'full size.' Fs is up at 165Hz, high Q, low Vas & almost no linear displacement. That does not equate to a driver that it is easy to extract reasonable quality LF from.

[Bigun]

Well, I'm still trying to imagine how many 'full size' horns the Japanese want to build that it justifies this driver being introduced and why, if a full size horn is needed, they don't prefer the 126 with it's higher sensitivity and lower Fs. The A5/6 appears to be much more flexible for smaller enclosures so the same question doesn't seem to be relevant there. I'm a curious person !

With regards double driver FH3 - is there something 'clever' to be done by positioning a 2nd 3" driver so that it is located at a strategic point along the horn in terms of reducing ripple in the FR ?

[chrisb]

Originally Posted by Bigun

Well, I'm still trying to imagine how many 'full size' horns the Japanese want to build that it justifies this driver being introduced and why, if a full size horn is needed, they don't prefer the 126 with it's higher sensitivity and lower Fs. The A5/6 appears to be much more flexible for smaller enclosures so the same question doesn't seem to be relevant there. I'm a curious person !

Who knows with what rigid calculus (if any?) a particular manufacturer ( Fostex in this case) assesses the needs of their most selected client base?

i.e. how well did it work for the long time largest auto manufacturer?

For more than a few decades, much has been posited over the different cultural/musical sensitivities of the Japanese "audiophile" & DIY market, and how that might affect the design and marketing strategies of electronic and speaker manufacturers.

With regards double driver FH3 - is there something 'clever' to be done by positioning a 2nd 3" driver so that it is located at a strategic point along the horn in terms of reducing ripple in the FR ?

I'd beware of thinking out loud over attempts at "cleverness"; just build it, (measure if you like) and verify with other listeners first before prematurely going public



and, yes, you are addicted

[Scottmoose]

Generally speaking, the buyers of these will have a rather particular take on what they want & they'll be willing to make major compromises in order to gain a special 'something' they feel they cannot get from anything else. To each their own.

BTW, what particular 'ripple' are we discussing here?

[Bigun]

Originally Posted by Scottmoose

BTW, what particular 'ripple' are we discussing here?

I'm thinking of the ripple in the frequency response that one expects from a horn that is smaller than it would ideally be if there were no limitations (what MJK calls 'consistent') and the reason why the 'pipe' has to be suffed behind the driver. Maybe my thinking is all screwed up.

Anyhow, I figure that the FH3 has resonances between the pointy closed end and the choke point just before the flare - why people have said it looks like a Voigt. And I am learning that with these things you put the driver in a place to reduce harmonics / resonances to smooth out the FR. So if you have two drivers maybe you have another degree of freedom that allows the constructor to cancel additional harmonics that one driver alone can't do.

In my ignorance I think this allows a twin-driver FH3 to be a better horn than a single driver FH3.

Originally Posted by chrisb

just build it, (measure if you like) and verify with other listeners first before prematurely going public
and, yes, you are addicted

I'm afraid that my crazy thoughts often spill out prematurely onto the forum, all to my embarassment I'm afraid! Actually, I have no equipment for measuring speaker performance but my interest grows and perhaps I should think about how to do that.

[chrisb]

Bigun;

all kidding aside, my gut feeling is that dual FF85K would work best if installed as close together as possible - we'll likely play with that ourselves sometimes after the long weekend

[Bigun]

Originally Posted by chrisb

Bigun;

all kidding aside, my gut feeling is that dual FF85K would work best if installed as close together as possible - we'll likely play with that ourselves sometimes after the long weekend

Probably two drivers some distance apart creates their own nasty surprises with interference effects at the listening position so your gut feeling is to be trusted.