Most critical frequency response area? 192 Hz to 384 Hz - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Full Range

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 21st August 2010, 09:04 PM   #1
hebrer is offline hebrer  Slovakia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Slovakia
Default Most critical frequency response area? 192 Hz to 384 Hz

Hi, when reading a the "Get Better Sound" audio system set-up manual, I was intrigued by what the author Jim Smith claims about the 192 Hz to 384 Hz frequency region:

Quote:
Tip #44: The one thing that your system must have to be musically satisfying
...
In my years of experience in voicing systems, I've found that a system must have a flat-to-slightly-elevated response curve in the critical region from approximately 192 Hz to 384 Hz. Yes, I said it could be slightly elevated. Of course, if a system covers the area properly, there's no need. But not all do.

This range is from one-half octave below middle C (when the scale is 256 Hz) to one-half octave above it. Therefore, the area between approximately 192 Hz and 384 Hz is one musical octave in width.

When a speaker (or electronic component or cable) seems to be lean in this area, the sound will usually prove to be boring musically. Amazingly, components that are lean in this area are often admiringly described as highly resolved, precise, articulate, etc. My description? BORING...

But when this region is either flat, or perhaps elevated by a very slight amount, the music is infinitely more involving. Strings have more body. Brass will have more "weight," and a more "burnished" tone.

Orchestral music will have a balance (and subjective power response) more akin to live sound in a concert hall.

Vocals will have much more palpable presence. That "reach out and touch it" impression.

The sound will be lusher. Guitars will ring out with a beauty that almost touches your soul. In short, you'll find yourself affected by the music.

Aside from addressing the smooth bass in the 25-300 Hz region, this is probably the most important frequency response area that a component or system must get right for ultimate satisfaction. For example, if a system is exceptionally detailed or has powerful bass, but it doesn't get this area right, it'll be fatiguing to listen to over a period of time.
...
I've observed this phenomenon for many years. I wish I could tell you why it's so, but I don't know. I just know it is. For me, it's foundational for ultimate musical satisfaction.
Apart from being curious, if your experience is similar, I am more interested to hear your opinion on what type of speaker enclosure might best take care of the 192 Hz to 384 Hz region.

I am about to build new speakers using 10" fullrange driver (http://commonsenseaudio.com/an10cfspecs.jpg). Forgive my ignorance, but I notice this particular driver has lowest impendance in the 192 Hz to 384 Hz region. What practical implications does this have?

Thank you for sharing..... Peter
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd August 2010, 12:46 AM   #2
Bigun is offline Bigun  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Bigun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Blog Entries: 2
I never heard of this claim before about that particular frequency range. Sounds like a cart load of horse waste to me.
__________________
"The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed." Robert M Pirsig.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd August 2010, 04:50 AM   #3
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
what does he mean by being right in the area? only slightly elevated spl instead of lean flat response on paper? isn't it the area where a box speaker will tend to suffer from baffle step when in room?

where is the excerpt from?
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd August 2010, 05:07 AM   #4
Pano is offline Pano  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
Pano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Kona, Hawaii
Blog Entries: 4
Get Better Sound
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd August 2010, 07:56 AM   #5
jerryo is offline jerryo  Isle of Man
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Hi panomaniac,
I had a quick look at the link you provided and I have to say the book looks interesting.
I presume that you have a copy; if so, could you give us a review of it and say whether you think it is worth buying?
Thank you.

Cheers
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd August 2010, 08:16 AM   #6
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: victoria BC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigun View Post
I never heard of this claim before about that particular frequency range. Sounds like a cart load of horse waste to me.


stranger things have been found to be "true" without being "proven"
__________________
now on sabbatical
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd August 2010, 08:18 AM   #7
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: sheffield
Send a message via MSN to sq225917
mess about with a digital EQ and find out.
__________________
hoping to pick up some things.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd August 2010, 08:22 AM   #8
hebrer is offline hebrer  Slovakia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Slovakia
Default Book "Get Better Sound"

Hi jerryo,

I have the book also and while not able to give you a "review", I can tell you that for me it proved a very cost effective treatment of "upgraditis". In audio world full of opinions and personal preferences, a little knowledge based on sound physical principles and confirmed by years of experience goes a long way. When seen as a book, it is definitely not cheap. When seen as (knowledge of) an audio component, I have not found a better value yet. It saved me hundreds of dollars potentially spent on "trial & error" or "plug & pray" upgrades to my audio system. Just my 2 cents.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd August 2010, 08:33 AM   #9
hebrer is offline hebrer  Slovakia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Slovakia
Default Related question

On a related topic:

How much would you think that the sound of a speaker in the 200-400 Hz region is shaped by:

- frequency response of the driver

- cabinet

- room and room treatments?

I just presume it is a combination of all three factors but unlike in higher frequency region, the effect of the cabinet and the room may be stronger.

If so, does the enclosure play lesser/equal/greater role than the frequency response of the driver given by the manufacturer, particularly in the 200-400 Hz area?

Thanks for your thoughts.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd August 2010, 08:56 AM   #10
Previously: Kuei Yang Wang
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by hebrer View Post
Hi, when reading a the "Get Better Sound" audio system set-up manual, I was intrigued by what the author Jim Smith claims about the 192 Hz to 384 Hz frequency region

Apart from being curious, if your experience is similar, I am more interested to hear your opinion on what type of speaker enclosure might best take care of the 192 Hz to 384 Hz region.
I think Jim is too restrictive and imprecise at the same time.

The fundamentals of many instruments and the human voice fall into this range.

I would personally say that it is important that this range is in the correct proportion compared to frequencies above and below, not to be flat in itself.

However I would add that it is the in room POWER RESPONSE and NOT the (pseudo)anechoic on axis frequency response that should be flat in this range. The on axis response if flat as well should be accounted as major bonus.

In general terms this implies a system with controlled directivity in this range, which pretty much means a large front horn, e.g. the big Avantgarde Trumpets Jim used to sell, or a dipole or a cardioid system. Conventional vented boxes, especially narrow fronted ones often cannot deliver this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hebrer View Post
I am about to build new speakers using 10" fullrange driver (http://commonsenseaudio.com/an10cfspecs.jpg). Forgive my ignorance, but I notice this particular driver has lowest impendance in the 192 Hz to 384 Hz region. What practical implications does this have?
Looking quickly at the driver it would seem that it requires front and rear horn loading to offer a balanced frequency response, so I hope you intend to buildsuch a cabinet. A reflex box would give a most uneven frequency response.

As to impedance being lowest, it means this range will be somewhat suppressed when driving the speaker from an Amplifier with high output impedance (OTL, SET) compared to a conventional amplifier, nothing more and nothing less.

Ciao T

Last edited by ThorstenL; 22nd August 2010 at 09:11 AM.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
50 hz motor at 60 hz momin Everything Else 4 22nd August 2008 05:53 PM
need help wana change 60-Hz twin-T notch filter to 279 Hz filter prorms Solid State 0 10th February 2008 12:38 AM
Ultra Low Hz below 15 Hz Richard Moon Class D 6 6th October 2006 05:48 PM
how many hz in an octave? xstephanx Subwoofers 5 15th February 2005 02:16 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:17 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2