I'm wondering about FR solutions for "Near Field" monitoring and have a few questions:
1. Alpair7 - I've seen a twin design but I don't see the need for two drivers when monitoring near field.
2. Alpair6 Mk2 paper - Should I wait for these??
3. CSS FR125SR is an option but read somewhere that the break in time is very long.
I'm currently using a pair of modded Alesis M1 Active Mk1. The frequency response is about 50Hz to 22kHz. I'm looking to achieve the same range with a FR design.
Thanks.
1. Alpair7 - I've seen a twin design but I don't see the need for two drivers when monitoring near field.
2. Alpair6 Mk2 paper - Should I wait for these??
3. CSS FR125SR is an option but read somewhere that the break in time is very long.
I'm currently using a pair of modded Alesis M1 Active Mk1. The frequency response is about 50Hz to 22kHz. I'm looking to achieve the same range with a FR design.
Thanks.
1/ agreed
2/ looks to be a very promising driver. One of the 3 sets of early protos in here for the upcoming diyFEST (pop over for the FEST, of you'd like to hear then, we'll have proto A10.2 here as well (as long as the airmail arrives in time)), and they are very good. Chris likes them better than the A7, i haven't decided yet... but Mark has advanced the design considerably since the protos i had were built. Probably won't be available here till late Sep-Oct. I just did up a milliSize box for these based on the most recent measured prototype data. If you want an even smaller box, the big box for the A6Metal is 3 litre
3/ yes, but not as long as the Mark Audio. IMHO any of the Alpair Gen2 are a step up from the FR125 which is better compared to EL70 or CHR-70
If you want 55 Hz at the bottom, you are probably looking at A7 in something like the deciSize miniOnken
dave
2/ looks to be a very promising driver. One of the 3 sets of early protos in here for the upcoming diyFEST (pop over for the FEST, of you'd like to hear then, we'll have proto A10.2 here as well (as long as the airmail arrives in time)), and they are very good. Chris likes them better than the A7, i haven't decided yet... but Mark has advanced the design considerably since the protos i had were built. Probably won't be available here till late Sep-Oct. I just did up a milliSize box for these based on the most recent measured prototype data. If you want an even smaller box, the big box for the A6Metal is 3 litre
3/ yes, but not as long as the Mark Audio. IMHO any of the Alpair Gen2 are a step up from the FR125 which is better compared to EL70 or CHR-70
If you want 55 Hz at the bottom, you are probably looking at A7 in something like the deciSize miniOnken
dave
Hi there, I'm also conmsidering the Alpairs, specifically the Alpair 7 for near field listening (gonna place them beside the comp monitor). Where can I find the plans to the deciSize miniOnken or even smaller enclosures?
The Classic GR version of the deciOnken will be available for free, but i only have a few of the variations drawn.
The full-on dMar-Ken7 will cost a token amount of money, but i still need dome beta testers for the plan document.
eMail me about either.
dave
The full-on dMar-Ken7 will cost a token amount of money, but i still need dome beta testers for the plan document.
eMail me about either.
dave
The question is:
Which will deliver more clarity for mixing. Paper (A6) or Aluminum(A7)?
EQ, compressing, and reverb are the main mixing tools.
Thanks.
PS: Would like to go to the diyFEST, got work commitments. Perhaps I'll have to wait til Bob gets em at CSS.
Which will deliver more clarity for mixing. Paper (A6) or Aluminum(A7)?
EQ, compressing, and reverb are the main mixing tools.
Thanks.
PS: Would like to go to the diyFEST, got work commitments. Perhaps I'll have to wait til Bob gets em at CSS.
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That os going to be a hard call. Even after you hear them. The new gen2 drivers with the multiform cones and the Matsubara-san spiders are pretty special. I expect no less from the gen2 A6 & A10.
But based on listening to the early prototypes promise their own special qualities (no trick suspension, no trick coils, who knows what other magic the growing number of ex-Fostex guys now helping Mark out bring to the party).
I expect 2 knock out drivers (A6 was/is my favorite of the 1st gen drivers), Choosing just 1 will be hard.
One thing i do have a handle on, if the parameters of the pre-production units hold, is that a big box for A6P will me millSized, and for the metal, 3 litre (at least my boxes). The latter will fit into 1.5 litre (fitting the port is a challenge thou).
dave
PS: to call the metal the cones of made of aluminum is a bit of short shrift... they are a pretty special alloy.
But based on listening to the early prototypes promise their own special qualities (no trick suspension, no trick coils, who knows what other magic the growing number of ex-Fostex guys now helping Mark out bring to the party).
I expect 2 knock out drivers (A6 was/is my favorite of the 1st gen drivers), Choosing just 1 will be hard.
One thing i do have a handle on, if the parameters of the pre-production units hold, is that a big box for A6P will me millSized, and for the metal, 3 litre (at least my boxes). The latter will fit into 1.5 litre (fitting the port is a challenge thou).
dave
PS: to call the metal the cones of made of aluminum is a bit of short shrift... they are a pretty special alloy.
hi ljfont
I can thoroughly recommend the Alpair 10 for nearfield work, although I'm not entirely sure about your upper frequency limit. I've recently built a pair of BRs of 10ltrs which replaced a pair of tannoy reveals, which in turn replaced a pair of mackies. I havn't checked on the paper vs metal thing but I have no complaints with the metal a10s.
www.vitalstates.org/diy/misc/a10-34.jpg
www.vitalstates.org/diy/misc/a10-34-front.jpg
www.vitalstates.org/diy/misc/a10-fullfront-bright.jpg
www.vitalstates.org/diy/misc/studio-mess.jpg
Ed
I can thoroughly recommend the Alpair 10 for nearfield work, although I'm not entirely sure about your upper frequency limit. I've recently built a pair of BRs of 10ltrs which replaced a pair of tannoy reveals, which in turn replaced a pair of mackies. I havn't checked on the paper vs metal thing but I have no complaints with the metal a10s.
www.vitalstates.org/diy/misc/a10-34.jpg
www.vitalstates.org/diy/misc/a10-34-front.jpg
www.vitalstates.org/diy/misc/a10-fullfront-bright.jpg
www.vitalstates.org/diy/misc/studio-mess.jpg
Ed
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Hello Vitalstates,
Thanks for sharing your photos, looks great.
Question:
How do you find mixing on full range speakers, compared to the silk dome type tweeters of the mackies and tannoys? I'm thinking clarity, with reverbs, delays, and more separation with FR types.
Do you find it easier or more accurate to EQ sounds/instruments on the full range? compared to your previous speakers, especially near the crossover points.
Thanks.
Thanks for sharing your photos, looks great.
Question:
How do you find mixing on full range speakers, compared to the silk dome type tweeters of the mackies and tannoys? I'm thinking clarity, with reverbs, delays, and more separation with FR types.
Do you find it easier or more accurate to EQ sounds/instruments on the full range? compared to your previous speakers, especially near the crossover points.
Thanks.
Hi ljfont
Its not easy to answer your questions as I'd be comparing apples with oranges....but
I ditched the mackies when I switched to outboard dac and valve amplification in the studio.
As I recall the change to the passive tannoys didn't make a lot of sonic difference, but then there were major changes in the sig chain so it would be pointless to try and compare. The big difference was the financial refund.
The change from the tannoys to the alpair seems more significant. To my ears there is far more seperation of instruments(both tonally and spatially) which allows a bit more freedom in moving parts backwards or forwards in the mix. This is evident when I do the far field double check with the ariels though, so the benefit is real.
I can't say I noticed any crossover problems with the tannoys so that hasn't been an area of improvement for me in regard to EQing. Also, I can't detect any serious change at the top end with my ears, but I suppose they can be described as 'well used' now.
In summary I'd say the new monitors are far more focussed and everything is slightly cleaner and more defined. But, own builds are always clouded with that pride thing.
Heres a basic comparison taken in the same room in the same place:
http://www.vitalstates.org/diy/misc/tannoy-vs-alpair10.jpg
red is tannoy, black is alpair
Ed
Its not easy to answer your questions as I'd be comparing apples with oranges....but
I ditched the mackies when I switched to outboard dac and valve amplification in the studio.
As I recall the change to the passive tannoys didn't make a lot of sonic difference, but then there were major changes in the sig chain so it would be pointless to try and compare. The big difference was the financial refund.
The change from the tannoys to the alpair seems more significant. To my ears there is far more seperation of instruments(both tonally and spatially) which allows a bit more freedom in moving parts backwards or forwards in the mix. This is evident when I do the far field double check with the ariels though, so the benefit is real.
I can't say I noticed any crossover problems with the tannoys so that hasn't been an area of improvement for me in regard to EQing. Also, I can't detect any serious change at the top end with my ears, but I suppose they can be described as 'well used' now.
In summary I'd say the new monitors are far more focussed and everything is slightly cleaner and more defined. But, own builds are always clouded with that pride thing.
Heres a basic comparison taken in the same room in the same place:
http://www.vitalstates.org/diy/misc/tannoy-vs-alpair10.jpg
red is tannoy, black is alpair
Ed
This sounds convincing. I'm definitely considering the A7's, but also watching out for the A6 paper ones too.
Clarity is key for me, when applying specific audio processing.
Thanks for your graphs and input Ed.
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