CHR-70 Cabinet Decision

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Long time lurker, first time poster (I think anyway). I recently ordered 4 CHR-70s and am trying to finalize which cabinet to put them in. I've already decided on 2 per side for the following reasons. I will be using a solid state amp and I don't require a "sweet spot" as I want to be able to sit about anywhere in the room (about 25ft X 15ft X 8ft) and still enjoy them. This seems to require at least 1 speaker that does not face forward. The micoTower and Wessex ML-TL (with 1 driver in a different location) seem to be suitable candidates, but I have found another called the Chillingham although I haven't found any plans - free or available for purchase. The decription of the sound from the Chillingham fits what I am looking for. I'm open to suggestions and correct me if I've mistated something. My current speakers are JBL L-40s that I have been listening to for 30 years now. I have no intention of parting with them, but I think they don't give me the detail that I believe is missing. Subs can be a consideration, but I don't want to start with them for now. I also don't expect them to reach the ear bleeding volumes the JBLs can put out. I want something that I can say WOW to - how can that small driver put out that kind of sound. :snoopy:

Robert
 
Everyone knows what I'm going to say....Lotus^2

Of all the designs I've built thus far it's the only one I've built twice (3 times if you count the very similar Coniston^2)

The micro towers are also a great choice. Both the Micro Towers and the Lotus^2 can be played without a subwoofer and will really make you smile when you hear the bass response. It's quite surprising sometimes.

Do you have any space constraints?

Lotus^2 Plans
Micro Tower Plans
 
Long time lurker, first time poster (I think anyway). I recently ordered 4 CHR-70s and am trying to finalize which cabinet to put them in. I've already decided on 2 per side for the following reasons. I will be using a solid state amp and I don't require a "sweet spot" as I want to be able to sit about anywhere in the room (about 25ft X 15ft X 8ft) and still enjoy them. This seems to require at least 1 speaker that does not face forward. The micoTower and Wessex ML-TL (with 1 driver in a different location) seem to be suitable candidates, but I have found another called the Chillingham although I haven't found any plans - free or available for purchase. The decription of the sound from the Chillingham fits what I am looking for. I'm open to suggestions and correct me if I've mistated something. My current speakers are JBL L-40s that I have been listening to for 30 years now. I have no intention of parting with them, but I think they don't give me the detail that I believe is missing. Subs can be a consideration, but I don't want to start with them for now. I also don't expect them to reach the ear bleeding volumes the JBLs can put out. I want something that I can say WOW to - how can that small driver put out that kind of sound. :snoopy:

Robert


IINM, the Chillingham was essentially an enlarged version of Dave's "Castle" microtower design - one of the drivers upward firing. I built both versions of the microtowers shown on on the P10 website documentation, and prefer the castle version to the (more) conventional bipole. I also prefer the paper EL70 to the CHR, but that's just me.

If you want detailed working drawings of the Chillingham, contact the builder c/o

audio-talk :: View topic - Chillingham MLTL CHR70


and with all due respect to the JBLs - you might listen to them far less than ever if you construct any of the by now well tested designs using mr Fenlon's wonderful drivers.

and finally, to echo Steve's above question, as many of the dual driver enclosures discussed have non-conventional driver locations/dispersion characteristics, a specific recommendation needs to be informed by any room placement issues (i.e. rear or side firing "bipoles" have have special considerations, and the tall double mouth BVR's / horns have a minimum recommended listening distance)
 
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frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
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Welcome to the forum Robert.

Chillingham is a proprietary design Scott did for a semi-commercial builder in the UK. I've not even seen details, althou i suspect it is similar to Thirlmere.

Another design worthy of consideration is the Lotus^2. I think i have the notes for a dual driver Metronome as well.

I can say that we get tremendous bass out of the microTower, what the larger boxes should do is get more.

dave
 
Meant to reply earlier, but got tied up.:whip:
Lotus^2 - can't believe I missed that one and it is definitely something to consider. Space constraints - I guess you mean within the room. No corners are available, but I wanted to place them on either side of a large picture window on the long wall. They would still be 6ft from the nearest corners. And I don't mind bringing them into the room 18 inches or so. Listening area would still be 8 to 15 ft away from them. Size of the speaker - my wife :judge:had already given permission for the curvy changes before I made the jump to Mark Audio.
I will pursue more information about the Chillinghams in a day or 2. As for the JBLs, you're right. I've heard better, but they are like the old, comfortable shoes you can't part with :happy1:
So, is the Lotus^2 with a side firing driver appropriate? Or should I look closer elsewhere, keeping in mind I'm very curious about a upward firing driver.
Guys, I really appreciate the help. While I don't mind experimenting, my funds are limited and I hope to get something I can be satisfied with for awhile :cloud9:
Robert
 
Well, it took a little while and I've been listening to them for over a week now. They are very impressive. I thought that maybe they would be a little bass shy, but not so. I consider it much better than my JBLs - clean and very solid. DSC_2547 reduced.JPG
I do notice one thing though. Most other speakers grow weak in the bass when the volume is low (whether it the speakers or the ears :confused:), but these don't need any bass boost at low volumes. What am I hearing here? Could they actually have too much bass and I don't realize it? Or is something else at play here?
Anyway, I love them. They are not finished yet, needing paint and terminals on the back side. They're also not perfect - this is my first attempt at furniture quality woodwork. I think once they are painted they will look very good indeed. Thanks for these forums and the knowledge they impart and thanks for the Lotus^2. They are definately worth the time I put into building them. Robert
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
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Good to hear that you are enjoying them. Interesting treatment of the bottom back (and the top)... i like it. If you are willing, a full set of hi-rez pictures for the web site would be appreciated.

What you are hearing as the level is reduced is good downward dynamic range (both in the speaker and because the amp has an easier load to drive).

dave
 
Thanks for the explanation about dynamic range. I'm glad there's a good reason for it. And they are indeed plywood - marine 9 ply with absolutely no voids. It's scrap from a now defunct boat manufacturer nearby and it was so cheap I bought quite a bit of it. Virtually all the pieces were over 8 feet long of various widths. It kept my costs down and seems more than up to the task. Since I'm new at this I didn't want to spend too much money on really good plywood. Dave, upload pictures to where exactly? I thought only pictures up to about 195K could be uploaded? Tell me where and I'll supply them. I'll overcome my embarrassment of you guys being able to pick out the flaws. If the average guy can make these great sounding cabs even with flaws, maybe it will encourage someone else to give it a try. It's definitely worth it.
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
If the average guy can make these great sounding cabs even with flaws, maybe it will encourage someone else to give it a try. It's definitely worth it.

It is in the whole communities' interest that people's 1st builds are successful -- it encourages more addicts :D So help & encouragement is always given freely.

If you think your build is flawed, just consider that Chris doesn't let me near any actual builds (except occasionally acting as an additional pair of hand). I end up doing most of my speaker building in VectorWorks & SketchUp.

dave
 
It is in the whole communities' interest that people's 1st builds are successful -- it encourages more addicts

No kidding! Sure perks my interest. Especially hearing about the bass. Because I was wondering about the bass with such a small speaker.

Any thoughts about using Alpair7 vs CHR-70? I realize the cost doubles. What about sound?

Regards,

John
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
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My feeling only, i've not been able to compare apples with apples, is that CHR will dig down a bit better than A7, but A7 has more finese, much more. But that is based on CHR Mk1, my Mk2s are in process and i should be able to slide the 1st ones into a box i about a week.

But if you really want bottom, the EL70 is the king here as far as i'm concerned. Steven is probably better positioned to do a compare, he has both Coniston^2 & Lotus^2 (except for changes for the specific drivers, these are the same design brief), althou Steven also may not have experienced Gen2 CHR. I have one client that built 2 pair of bipole EL70 Met (and a "matching" custom designed centre) and is using them in an HT (i think 1 pair of the Mets were actually picnched ay a friend) and says he just took the sub away. BTW if there is interest, i'll happily do up an EL70 based Toole-style surround similar to the CHR one in the microTower HT appendix (speaking of which -- Steven do you have music coming out of your folded half-towers?)

One thing i can say, any of the Mark Audios, particularily the Gen2 which started with EL70, will produce a very satisfying speaker and provide huge value. Differences are more of flavour, finesse, and quantity. You will be hard pressed to find any Gen 1 drivers anyway, their quality was already such that they took the world by storm, and most are already in the hands of diyers.

Back onto CHR vrs A7, i speculate (yet to be confirmed) that the lower priced drivers work better with "lesser" amplifiers (inexpensive HT receivers, budget T-amps, chipamps, cheap tube amps) as they won't put as much of a spot-lite on their deficencies, and for the same price as one of the Alpairs, you can build a box with 2 pair of CHR or EL70, so you can get more "quantity" (ie volume, impact, dynamics, spaciousness). Of course if budget was no issue you'd already have a really good amp, and would look at a pair of A7 or A12.

The other approach to getting more out of these, is to add bass helpers. I've started on a project with an Alpair7eN & 4 SDX7 per side. Once sorted, i'd expect that if you could find this in a retail store from an established manufacturer, it would cost 15-40k and be VERY competitive. That tells you how good i think the A7 is. (and one could extrapolate that to an A12 with 4 SDX10 or custom AE 10s, in the 30-80k range :))

dave
 
My feeling only, i've not been able to compare apples with apples, is that CHR will dig down a bit better than A7, but A7 has more finese, much more. But that is based on CHR Mk1, my Mk2s are in process and i should be able to slide the 1st ones into a box i about a week.

But if you really want bottom, the EL70 is the king here as far as i'm concerned. Steven is probably better positioned to do a compare, he has both Coniston^2 & Lotus^2 (except for changes for the specific drivers, these are the same design brief), althou Steven also may not have experienced Gen2 CHR. I have one client that built 2 pair of bipole EL70 Met (and a "matching" custom designed centre) and is using them in an HT (i think 1 pair of the Mets were actually picnched ay a friend) and says he just took the sub away. BTW if there is interest, i'll happily do up an EL70 based Toole-style surround similar to the CHR one in the microTower HT appendix (speaking of which -- Steven do you have music coming out of your folded half-towers?)

One thing i can say, any of the Mark Audios, particularily the Gen2 which started with EL70, will produce a very satisfying speaker and provide huge value. Differences are more of flavour, finesse, and quantity. You will be hard pressed to find any Gen 1 drivers anyway, their quality was already such that they took the world by storm, and most are already in the hands of diyers.

Back onto CHR vrs A7, i speculate (yet to be confirmed) that the lower priced drivers work better with "lesser" amplifiers (inexpensive HT receivers, budget T-amps, chipamps, cheap tube amps) as they won't put as much of a spot-lite on their deficencies, and for the same price as one of the Alpairs, you can build a box with 2 pair of CHR or EL70, so you can get more "quantity" (ie volume, impact, dynamics, spaciousness). Of course if budget was no issue you'd already have a really good amp, and would look at a pair of A7 or A12.

The other approach to getting more out of these, is to add bass helpers. I've started on a project with an Alpair7eN & 4 SDX7 per side. Once sorted, i'd expect that if you could find this in a retail store from an established manufacturer, it would cost 15-40k and be VERY competitive. That tells you how good i think the A7 is. (and one could extrapolate that to an A12 with 4 SDX10 or custom AE 10s, in the 30-80k range :))

dave

Personally I like the all black, old school look of the El70 over the look of the CHR & Alpair 7 (just my opinion, to each his/her own :). The cone shape and center cap also look similar to the Alpair 7 & 12. Yet the specs for the El & CHR look fairly similar so I wonder if the EL70 is worth the extra, all be it a nominal difference of $26.00 (per pair) over the CHR?

Also, without the higher end amps are most users going to realize or be able to appreciate the more refined nature of the Alpair 7?
 
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frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
Also, without the higher end amps are most users going to realize or be able to appreciate the more refined nature of the Alpair 7?

My EL70eN & CHR70.2eN are the same price. The aggressivness of Madisound's CHR pricing was a bit of a surprise. The EL70 also has about a 3dB efficiency advantage. My personal pref is definitly EL70 over CHR Mk1. We'll see what i think when Mk 2 comes up from downstairs.

With those amps the A7 may actually be a detriment in that it shows the warts on the amp in more stark relief. Every one of these drivers has their place and system synergy is not to be ignored.

dave
 
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