The TB products i have, 315, 319, Bamboo 4", Titanium 3" and 1808 (and an 8' subwoofer) all tell me their intentions are in the right place as a full range driver manufacturer. I believe they offer an interesting and worthwhile alternative. Regardless of the chart smoothing their drivers sound the most neutral to me compared to the others out there and are easy to work with. Many of their drivers work best in simple sealed and ported boxes of normal shape and size.
>>> I have been wanting to ask you how you think the 1808 compares to the Bamboo 4" as a wideband driver (e.g., used with a helper woofer).
Hi KChang! The 1808 is better from top to bottom. The TB Bamboo is a really good driver but it sounds duller on top than the 1808 and is more of a regular driver compared to the extra special build quality of the 1808. The 1808 sounds lighter on its feet, fuller and more capable. Factoring in a helper woofer i'd prefer the 1808 because it sounds more extended thru the treble and has a more open lively sound. I enjoy both drivers but feel the 1808 provides more realism and has more potential to fill a room with lifelike sound.
Hi KChang! The 1808 is better from top to bottom. The TB Bamboo is a really good driver but it sounds duller on top than the 1808 and is more of a regular driver compared to the extra special build quality of the 1808. The 1808 sounds lighter on its feet, fuller and more capable. Factoring in a helper woofer i'd prefer the 1808 because it sounds more extended thru the treble and has a more open lively sound. I enjoy both drivers but feel the 1808 provides more realism and has more potential to fill a room with lifelike sound.
>>> Godzilla, how does W4-1320SJ sound on axis?
Regardless of what the graph suggests they sounded dull on top to me so i added a helper tweeter. I think some may prefer it without the helper tweeter but the treble sounds 'soft' to me. Maybe i've spent too much time listening to Fostex lol.
http://www.zillaaudio.com/tb-1320-bamboo.htm
Godzilla
Regardless of what the graph suggests they sounded dull on top to me so i added a helper tweeter. I think some may prefer it without the helper tweeter but the treble sounds 'soft' to me. Maybe i've spent too much time listening to Fostex lol.
http://www.zillaaudio.com/tb-1320-bamboo.htm
Godzilla
Godzilla,
>>> The 1808 is better from top to bottom. The TB Bamboo is a really good driver but it sounds duller on top than the 1808 ...
Darn, now I have to try to control my urge to buy a pair. It's interesting that you consider the bamboo driver (relatively) dull-sounding. "Dull" is the word I'd use to describe Fostex FX120 when compared to the TB bamboo driver.
Thanks for the feedback.
Cheers,
Kurt
>>> The 1808 is better from top to bottom. The TB Bamboo is a really good driver but it sounds duller on top than the 1808 ...
Darn, now I have to try to control my urge to buy a pair. It's interesting that you consider the bamboo driver (relatively) dull-sounding. "Dull" is the word I'd use to describe Fostex FX120 when compared to the TB bamboo driver.
Thanks for the feedback.
Cheers,
Kurt
>>> "Dull" is the word I'd use to describe Fostex FX120 when compared to the TB bamboo driver.
I never heard the FX120 but wish i had. This is what makes it difficult when choosing a driver from reading internet posts. Some like one type of sound while others like another. Additionally, the comments made by one guy are based on what he's heard while comments from another are based on what he's heard... etc. I think the Bamboo has more treble than the B20 you have.
The Bamboo and the Fostex 127e are interesting to me bc they both have extended treble and don't require a tweeter... but i like to strengthen their response on top anyway. Meanwhile, both of these drivers sound different, the 127e sounding more forward to me while the Bamboo more relaxed.
The Fostex FX120 is more expensive than the Bamboo... which do you prefer? Also, do you feel the FX120 'needs' a tweeter or does it just sound duller than the Bamboo?
LOL, I wonder if we should set up a community spreadsheet listing all the full range drivers we mention on the forum and 'vote' on their sound: Forward, Too Forward, Dull, Mellow... whatever words are used to describe them... so we can possibly find some consistency and help each other make purchasing decisions.
I never heard the FX120 but wish i had. This is what makes it difficult when choosing a driver from reading internet posts. Some like one type of sound while others like another. Additionally, the comments made by one guy are based on what he's heard while comments from another are based on what he's heard... etc. I think the Bamboo has more treble than the B20 you have.
The Bamboo and the Fostex 127e are interesting to me bc they both have extended treble and don't require a tweeter... but i like to strengthen their response on top anyway. Meanwhile, both of these drivers sound different, the 127e sounding more forward to me while the Bamboo more relaxed.
The Fostex FX120 is more expensive than the Bamboo... which do you prefer? Also, do you feel the FX120 'needs' a tweeter or does it just sound duller than the Bamboo?
LOL, I wonder if we should set up a community spreadsheet listing all the full range drivers we mention on the forum and 'vote' on their sound: Forward, Too Forward, Dull, Mellow... whatever words are used to describe them... so we can possibly find some consistency and help each other make purchasing decisions.
>>> The Fostex FX120 is more expensive than the Bamboo... which do you prefer? Also, do you feel the FX120 'needs' a tweeter or does it just sound duller than the Bamboo?
I actually prefer the TB bamboo 4" to the Fostex FX120, even though the latter is more expensive. The sound of the bamboo driver seems to be more "involving," while the FX120 sounds a bit "sleepy."
On the other hand, I am not saying that the TB bamboo driver sounds more accurate than the FX120, or that the bamboo driver has a "better" treble response. I think whether either driver needs a tweeter or not would depends on the personal taste. I kind-of feel that perhaps too much emphasis has been put on the clarity of treble by the audio community in general. At one time I was also pursuing the "clarity," or "transparency" in the treble range. However, after I started singing in a large chorus (150-200 people) and performed multiple times with orchestras on the stage, I began to feel that most home audio setups actually tip in the direction of having more treble energy than what is found in real live music. When I compared the recorded music reproduced through, say, the TB bamboo driver to the live music as I remembered, the reproduced music often sounded shaper and significantly lacked the weight and fullness of the live music (which in my view is missing from 99% of home systems). In contrast, the FX120 seemed to have a tonal balance from the midrange up that is closer to the live music. I started wondering if trying to reproduce the live music in one's listening room is really a common goal pursued by most speaker enthusiasts. Perhaps we just prefer speakers that spice up the music in the ways we as individuals like.
For this reason, I have to wonder if your community spreadsheet idea would work, even though I like that idea. Unless everyone accepts that the primary goal is to faithfully reproduce the live music, and unless we can find a reliable and commonly accepted way of implementing the driver evaluation by individual community members based on that primary goal, I am afraid the data in the community spreadsheet would be so biased by personal preferences that any real signal would be buried under the noise.
Cheers,
Kurt
I actually prefer the TB bamboo 4" to the Fostex FX120, even though the latter is more expensive. The sound of the bamboo driver seems to be more "involving," while the FX120 sounds a bit "sleepy."
On the other hand, I am not saying that the TB bamboo driver sounds more accurate than the FX120, or that the bamboo driver has a "better" treble response. I think whether either driver needs a tweeter or not would depends on the personal taste. I kind-of feel that perhaps too much emphasis has been put on the clarity of treble by the audio community in general. At one time I was also pursuing the "clarity," or "transparency" in the treble range. However, after I started singing in a large chorus (150-200 people) and performed multiple times with orchestras on the stage, I began to feel that most home audio setups actually tip in the direction of having more treble energy than what is found in real live music. When I compared the recorded music reproduced through, say, the TB bamboo driver to the live music as I remembered, the reproduced music often sounded shaper and significantly lacked the weight and fullness of the live music (which in my view is missing from 99% of home systems). In contrast, the FX120 seemed to have a tonal balance from the midrange up that is closer to the live music. I started wondering if trying to reproduce the live music in one's listening room is really a common goal pursued by most speaker enthusiasts. Perhaps we just prefer speakers that spice up the music in the ways we as individuals like.
For this reason, I have to wonder if your community spreadsheet idea would work, even though I like that idea. Unless everyone accepts that the primary goal is to faithfully reproduce the live music, and unless we can find a reliable and commonly accepted way of implementing the driver evaluation by individual community members based on that primary goal, I am afraid the data in the community spreadsheet would be so biased by personal preferences that any real signal would be buried under the noise.
Cheers,
Kurt
More impressive is the frequency response of this little baby: http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1230_04/w3-1878.htm
Almost to good to be truth. Maybe I didn't look good enough, but I've never seen a 3" full-range driver with this smooth high frequency response. I can't wait to try a pair.
With kind regards,
Bas
Whilst I wouldn't want to put you off because these are probably really good for the money. The FR response is hiding something that is given away by the impedance plot. The two disturbances in the plot at 1K and 10K will translate to some form of FR effect, it may be off axis or high enough Q that it has been smoothed out but it will be there.
Best of luck with them though.
Regards,
Andrew
Almost to good to be truth. Maybe I didn't look good enough, but I've never seen a 3" full-range driver with this smooth high frequency response. I can't wait to try a pair.
With kind regards,
Bas
My same thoughts. 3" and 4" are the best of the new range, according to the response curves.
What do you mean by "FR effect", Andrew?
The 10k i dont care since i'll lowpass before that, but the first one worries me.
They cost around 70 euros... anybody tried them in the meantime?
this guy had the guts to try it!
http://www.hifi-forum.de/index.php?action=browseT&forum_id=205&thread=283
he is experimenting with Notch Filters
http://www.hifi-forum.de/index.php?action=browseT&forum_id=205&thread=283
he is experimenting with Notch Filters
By FR effect I just meant something in the frequensy response will be affected. I agree the one at 10K is unlikley to be much of an issue, its probably a reflection off some part of the basket. The disturbance at 1K could be the first break up of the cone if so the off axis response will be effected and so what looks like a really good falt response may not be when you consider the off axis response. It could be a reflection off some part of the basket or a motor fault although these are less likely. It is likely that it corresponds to an increase in distortion it is unusual to see an impedance disturbance that doesn't translate to a a real effect on the output of the driver.
Again I wouldn't write it off because of this lots of drivers have issues like this and can still work well. Its just something that needs to be investigated.
Regards,
Andrew
Again I wouldn't write it off because of this lots of drivers have issues like this and can still work well. Its just something that needs to be investigated.
Regards,
Andrew
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