Suggest me a FR driver?

[markusA]

I tried this once before but I got the question wrong and the answers never really hit target.
So, let's have another go at it.

Today I have a pair of ML TQWT with Jordan Jx92s.
I'm fairly happy with them but not completely.
- I feel the sound is somewhat veiled.
- I'm forced to use bsc.

Options
- New cabinet -> It'll fix #2 but the veiled sound is likely to persist
- New drivers + new cabinet, possibly a fix to both issues but I have no clue what driver to pick and this is where you guys come in.

The goal
A speaker that really plays music, good tight bass, not to harsh upper midrange, no bsc. I want the music to come alive!

The question
What drivers would you suggest? I suspect a BLH is the way to go since I want to avoid using a bsc.
I'll be using OTL tube amps -> High impedance drivers is a big + but not strictly necessary.
I'm not rich -> the expensive exotics are out of my reach.

So, mid to high impedance drivers for a BLH.
40-20kHz would be awsome but I'm willing to sacrifice some low bass for a good overall solution. 20kHz would be nice but I realize some drivers have limitations, anything above 15kHz will probably work as long as it doesn't sound veiled.

What would you suggest?
Is it doable?

[Henkjan]

how about an Alpair12 in the Pensil12 design? or any of the other Pensil serie designs?

[markusA]

I have just begun looking at the Mark Audio drivers, maybe you're onto something?
The Alpair 10 looks to have a more linear frequency response than the Alpair 12?
Maybe the 12 is still a better choice? It's bigger...

[Scottmoose]

I can't comment on 'veiled' because I don't know what it means. However, FWIW:

The MA drivers have an advantage over some others in that Mark has engineered some compensation for step-loss into their basic response, so, providing the box is also designed to work in conjunction with this, no Eq is needed.

The Alpair 10 looks to have a more linear frequency response than the Alpair 12?

Nope, they're much of a muchness (the A12 is actually somewhat more extended at the top end than the current [shortly to be replaced] A10). The difference in the graphs is due to the fact that since the A10 was released, Mark has reduced the amount of smoothing applied to the graphs on his data sheets.

Maybe the 12 is still a better choice? It's bigger...

Irrespective of size, the A12 is a much more advanced / sophisticated driver than either the JX92S, or the Mk1 A10.

[markusA]

Cool.
I'll have to take a closer look at the 12 now.
Is the compensation for the step loss reflected in the T/S parameters? i.e. will this show in the simulations?

[ultrakaz]

Why not buy another pair of JX92s and implement Griffin's offset dipole? That should eliminate the bsc, and relieve the Jordan somewhat. You pick the impedence; 4 or 16 ohm. "Come alive" may require a high spl multi driver setup- not the domain of single "full range" drivers. So, even going to a Lowther would require bsc and or a sub.

I would stay away from the Markaudio drivers until a "mature/final" design is released. (Of course that will require time.) The Mk2 or "next gen" versions come too quickly to keep up with let alone find evolved cabinets for them. I don't want to be involved in R&D unless I'm getting paid or receive the drivers for free.

[planet10]

To reinforce what Scott said. The 2nd generation Alpair drivers are a step change improvement over the 1st gen. Where the A10 (mk1) is very good, and neck & neck with the JX92, the new generation (so far represented by the A7 & A12) is a significant improvement. Gen 2 A6 & A10 are being detailed as we speak. This will bring the entire line up-to-date (the A5 is still in limbo due to the new Euro rules on ferrofluid)

Be wary of on-axis FR curves. Without the support of off-axis curves they do not tell you much.

dave

[markusA]

Smoothing or not the Alpair 12 graph still looks less impressive.
However I'm a no0b with little experience in these matters and like planet 10 said FR curves doesn't tell the whole story.

If you say it's a great driver that will suit my needs I'll take your word for it.
I like the fact that it's a 8" driver and the price is ok.
It's got better impedance, Xmax and power handling. Nothing bad at all really.

Will the built in step-loss compensation show when I run simulations? I use MJK's sheets.

[planet10]

Originally Posted by markusG

Will the built in step-loss compensation show when I run simulations? I use MJK's sheets.

No, because there is no way to input the FR. And you'd need at least every 10 degrees out to 90 degrees to be any use.

Get a hold of Scott and ask about the next beta round of Avebury. I haven't done the revised plans yet, but it is an opportunity you want to check out.

dave

[Scottmoose]

Originally Posted by markusG

Cool.
I'll have to take a closer look at the 12 now.
Is the compensation for the step loss reflected in the T/S parameters? i.e. will this show in the simulations?

No, as Dave mentions above, T/S specs. are largely mathematical constructs rather than 'real' parameters (which emphatically isn't to say they aren't useful, just that like anything else, they have their limitations). You can see the lift through the lower mids in the FR plots.

Smoothing or not the Alpair 12 graph still looks less impressive.

If the same level of smoothing was applied, the A12 graph would essentially look like that of the A10, albeit at a higher efficiency.

I would stay away from the Markaudio drivers until a "mature/final" design is released. (Of course that will require time.) The Mk2 or "next gen" versions come too quickly to keep up with let alone find evolved cabinets for them. I don't want to be involved in R&D unless I'm getting paid or receive the drivers for free.

If I may correct you here, the A12 & A7 are finalised; they won't change now for several years. Remember these are new units; they didn't replace anything. The original A6 & A10 had a decent lifespan of several years & are being upgraded to the same technical level as the new drivers, although the specs. will remain v. similar to ensure they can be used in the same enclosures. Again, once released, the new units won't change for several years.