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Old 7th June 2010, 08:33 PM   #1
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Default Frugal Horns - can't decide / need help

Hi,

while searching for a new project starting in October/November this year I found the Frugal Horn Speakers. I've read a lot about those during the last 2 weeks, but at the moment I can't decide which one would suit me best (to my needs). I have not heard/built a horn speaker yet (just transmissionline, BR, CB) but from what I have read so far during the last 2 weeks I think a medium sized horn could fit perfectly.

So what do I want? What must the new speaker do good? I'll try to explain:

- good dynamic range
- no ultra deep bass (50-60hz are enough for me)
- a clean sound with app. 90-95db (can't hear louder since I live in an apartment)
- while listening at moderate volumes it should also sound great (nothing must be absent)
- the new speakers should do well especially with rock/metal music --> fun!, but also other stuff shouldn't sound cra**y

My room is approx. 25m large, the speakers would stand 2m apart, main listening position between 2-3m

So my questions to some experienced horn speaker owners (maybe even some Frugal horns)

- could they suit my needs?
- would they "fit" into my room? ("Sachiko" is to big, I already figured that out^^)

Right now I tend to the "Chang" (Fostex E207e), the "Hiro" (Fostex E206e) or the "Mikasa" (Fostex E126en).

I hope you guys can give me some help deciding...

Thanks
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Old 8th June 2010, 05:45 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YangMimpi View Post
- the new speakers should do well especially with rock/metal music...
Hi YangMimpi, in my extremely limited experience:

I would not expect a single-driver speaker to do metal. It might do some (less demanding) rock. If you want to use a fullranger, and do rock/metal, you might consider using it from 200hz up, mated to a woofer.
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Old 8th June 2010, 06:20 PM   #3
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjbond3rd View Post
Hi YangMimpi, in my extremely limited experience:

I would not expect a single-driver speaker to do metal. It might do some (less demanding) rock. If you want to use a fullranger, and do rock/metal, you might consider using it from 200hz up, mated to a woofer.

YangMimpi:

Mr Bond speaks the truth, and there would be more than a few ways to achieve serviceable results; in a room your size the total footprint you can accommodate for the enclosures would be a big factor.

One very popular approach at the moment that costs very little in terms of construction materials would be a small OB - but the required space behind and to either side of the panel could be an issue.

Another would be something like a member of the Half Chang Family (personally, I've build a couple of pairs of Brynn with great results), with a small powered woofer per side, actively XO'd between 120-250. With a proper HP to the wideband part of the system, you can benefit from substantial increase in overall SPL, dynamic range, and reduced distortion in mids to HF range,
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Last edited by chrisb; 8th June 2010 at 06:40 PM.
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Old 8th June 2010, 06:37 PM   #4
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Hiro uses FE166e, and requires the same room size as Sachiko. Mikasa is a bit less demanding of listening distance, being shorter with a different mouth profile.

dave
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Old 8th June 2010, 07:13 PM   #5
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Thanks guys for this first feedback...

Obviously, the Sachiko as well as the Hiro seem to big for my room. I just measured around some more... the maximum listening position would be 3 meters from the speakers (going further back I would end up in the kitchen )

The Maximum footprint for each cabinet shouldn't exceed (30 (width x 60 depth) cm wenn placed directly in fornt of the wall (an estimated depth of 40cm would result in an 20cm space to the backwalls. A couple of centimeters more or less are no obstacle.

Maybe I should explain why I wrote "espacially for metal". I'm still very happy with the Needles - I really like their tonality, also while playing metal (I do NOT listen very loud at all). What I wanted to achieve with the new speakers is: more "in your face" (more dynamic) but still a quite linear reproduction from 60 hz upwards. I little dominance of the mids is no problem at all for me, since I like that. I know all horns go well louder than the Needles, but I think I'll never listen to them louder than 90db. So max volume and frequencies below 60hz are not important to me.

With that additional information given - any further suggestions from you?

PS: Of course the Hiro made for the 166,167,168 driver and not for the 206e ... it was quite late last night when I wrote that
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Old 8th June 2010, 07:16 PM   #6
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What kind of amplifier are you using?

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Old 8th June 2010, 07:22 PM   #7
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Right now I am using a Dual CR 1730 Stereo Receiver.. nothing fancy. 2x25W with a sound tending to a slight warmth.

But I am also looking out for something new - a vintage Marantz Receiver maybe - or something "british" from the 90's - Rotel, NAD etc.. but thats secondary at this moment
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Old 8th June 2010, 07:30 PM   #8
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I just took a closer look at the suggested Brynn. Kind of like that speaker, too... the only thing I worry about is the height of the speaker itself... it's about 62cm, with spikes/stands 65mx... thats about 25-30cm lower than my ears at listening position.

Must I be worried about Sweetspot or "listening off-the axis" problems?
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Old 8th June 2010, 07:32 PM   #9
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If you are looking to a high damping factor amplifier, and with even as much power as you have now, i would suggest looking at one of the Lake District or British Auto Series. Lotus, Coniston (or better yet the ^2 versions). Steven (Italyion Stallion) has built both.

dave
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Old 8th June 2010, 07:39 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YangMimpi View Post
I just took a closer look at the suggested Brynn. Kind of like that speaker, too... the only thing I worry about is the height of the speaker itself... it's about 62cm, with spikes/stands 65mx... thats about 25-30cm lower than my ears at listening position.

Must I be worried about Sweetspot or "listening off-the axis" problems?
Brynn limits you to finding some FE127e (i still have FE127eN available), but coming up with similar for EL70 & CHR70 based on Mar-Kel, and Mar-Ken is something Scott & i have touched on.

We had no issues with the height of Brynn (i have a set here), but some tilt-back pretty much cures any issues.

dave
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