8" and smaller fullrange vs 12" and up fullrange in OB

c3conv · 2nd June 2010, 01:37 PM

What could be the differences between 8" and smaller fullrange driver as compared to 12" and up full range drivers in OB? Any pros and cons of it?

borispm · 2nd June 2010, 01:59 PM

It depends on the motor structure and the construction as well... It's hard to say, but larger full range drivers generally have higher efficiency and you'll have more room for adding passive correction circuits, although you may not want to do so as it will add coloration to the pure "full range" idea...

chris661 · 2nd June 2010, 03:32 PM

A smaller driver will have smaller gaps in the basket, so the reflections from the back will be different.

Large drivers will also beam, so you'll have to sit very very still, but the magic of true full-range will mean you'll sit there for hours.

smbrown · 3rd June 2010, 01:56 PM

FWIW, I've used Electro Voice SP-12Bs in OB (12") and been very pleased with them. I'd guess effiency to be in the 98 to 99db range. Beaming? Maybe a bit, but not all that noticable to me. The baffle is about 18" wide and 40" high, SP-12b's mounted center toward top, bottom is a 15" parts express IB woofer. The woofer is driven by seperate amp, low passed at about 30hz.

brookbh · 3rd June 2010, 10:44 PM

I would be interested on the details of how that Dayton IB driver is crossed, and the amount of power needed to keep up with the EV?

I've always wanted a pair of the 12 trxb... Btw

smbrown · 3rd June 2010, 11:03 PM

It's an interesting idea that a friend introduce me to. If you imagine how the curve runs for the IB, which is it rolls off at a frequency close to where the SP12 runs out of steam, then consider the bass rolloff of the open baffle to start with, what we do by crossing at 30 or so is to create a fairly flat curve behind that from, say 30 up to 200hz - better yet, in reality it extends the sub to more like 20 flat to 200 or so. So just like the Sp12 runs out down low, the IB runs out up high. I have used a 200w SS amp on the IB with no lack of power. Both the amp for the SP12 and the one for the IB need seperate volume controls, and once set, the volume control on the preamp controls both at the same time. The low pass to the IB is simple first order using an R and C at the input to the bass amp.

Badwater · 4th June 2010, 12:31 AM

Ditto on EVSP12B. Pure magic. I am using a Alpha 15a in an H frame driven by a plate amp for the low end. I am also using a Fostex T90A up high to fill out the top end. Design is based on MJK's OB with Jordan full range project.

I just need to stop listening and finish them up

MobileMe Gallery

brookbh · 4th June 2010, 07:06 PM

smbrown,

you are using the low pass on the IB via a low pass x-over, and are using the size of the baffle to control the natural roll off of the sp12?

smbrown · 5th June 2010, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brookbh

smbrown,

you are using the low pass on the IB via a low pass x-over, and are using the size of the baffle to control the natural roll off of the sp12?

smbrown · 5th June 2010, 10:02 PM

Brookbh, yes, exactly. The crossover is a simple first order line level crossover and then I take that into a SS amp that has a volume pot. Very simple - something that can be knocked together in a few minutes to try. For example, a series 4.7k resistor and a parallel 1.7uf cap (call it 2uf) will give 20hz rolloff. Important for this to be first order, not steeper. What I did was make a simple 3 position switch all with a 1.5uf cap and 3 different R to give me about 20hz, 50hz and 100hz so I could try different settings.

2nd June 2010, 01:37 PM	#1
c3conv diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2008	8" and smaller fullrange vs 12" and up fullrange in OB What could be the differences between 8" and smaller fullrange driver as compared to 12" and up full range drivers in OB? Any pros and cons of it?

2nd June 2010, 03:32 PM	#3
chris661 diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Sheffield Blog Entries: 8	A smaller driver will have smaller gaps in the basket, so the reflections from the back will be different. Large drivers will also beam, so you'll have to sit very very still, but the magic of true full-range will mean you'll sit there for hours. __________________ "Throwing parts at a failure is like throwing sponges at a rainstorm." - Enzo My setup: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi...tang-band.html

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2nd June 2010, 01:59 PM	#2
borispm diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2010 Blog Entries: 1	It depends on the motor structure and the construction as well... It's hard to say, but larger full range drivers generally have higher efficiency and you'll have more room for adding passive correction circuits, although you may not want to do so as it will add coloration to the pure "full range" idea...

3rd June 2010, 01:56 PM	#4
smbrown diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Portland, OR	FWIW, I've used Electro Voice SP-12Bs in OB (12") and been very pleased with them. I'd guess effiency to be in the 98 to 99db range. Beaming? Maybe a bit, but not all that noticable to me. The baffle is about 18" wide and 40" high, SP-12b's mounted center toward top, bottom is a 15" parts express IB woofer. The woofer is driven by seperate amp, low passed at about 30hz.

3rd June 2010, 10:44 PM	#5
brookbh diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2008	I would be interested on the details of how that Dayton IB driver is crossed, and the amount of power needed to keep up with the EV? I've always wanted a pair of the 12 trxb... Btw

3rd June 2010, 11:03 PM	#6
smbrown diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Portland, OR	It's an interesting idea that a friend introduce me to. If you imagine how the curve runs for the IB, which is it rolls off at a frequency close to where the SP12 runs out of steam, then consider the bass rolloff of the open baffle to start with, what we do by crossing at 30 or so is to create a fairly flat curve behind that from, say 30 up to 200hz - better yet, in reality it extends the sub to more like 20 flat to 200 or so. So just like the Sp12 runs out down low, the IB runs out up high. I have used a 200w SS amp on the IB with no lack of power. Both the amp for the SP12 and the one for the IB need seperate volume controls, and once set, the volume control on the preamp controls both at the same time. The low pass to the IB is simple first order using an R and C at the input to the bass amp.

4th June 2010, 12:31 AM	#7
Badwater diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Harrisburg, PA	Ditto on EVSP12B. Pure magic. I am using a Alpha 15a in an H frame driven by a plate amp for the low end. I am also using a Fostex T90A up high to fill out the top end. Design is based on MJK's OB with Jordan full range project. I just need to stop listening and finish them up MobileMe Gallery

4th June 2010, 07:06 PM	#8
brookbh diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2008	smbrown, you are using the low pass on the IB via a low pass x-over, and are using the size of the baffle to control the natural roll off of the sp12?

5th June 2010, 10:02 PM	#10
smbrown diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Portland, OR	Brookbh, yes, exactly. The crossover is a simple first order line level crossover and then I take that into a SS amp that has a volume pot. Very simple - something that can be knocked together in a few minutes to try. For example, a series 4.7k resistor and a parallel 1.7uf cap (call it 2uf) will give 20hz rolloff. Important for this to be first order, not steeper. What I did was make a simple 3 position switch all with a 1.5uf cap and 3 different R to give me about 20hz, 50hz and 100hz so I could try different settings.