Hi Scott, I hope you feel better. When you do, I hope you can leak some details about the FH Mk3.
Due to the radical simplification and broad range of driver support, no clues until we get one built to verify (or not) whether we can actually get away with what is currently proposed. (ie will this crazy idea work)
dave
Thanks. I'll survive. 
No clues, but a few general hints at the direction we're heading in.
1/ Substantially simpler, as Dave notes. A few reasons for this; it's easier for 1st time builders, it further separates the FH from Ron's A126, and it will be easier / cheaper for people to offer as flat-packs if they wish to do so (within the terms on the FH site of course).
2/ Raise the tuning frequency a little & let the little units do what they do well, rather than trying to squeeze too much out of them in a small box.
3/ Forgiving enough to allow people to engage in a spot of driver-rolling, if they feel so inclined.
No clues, but a few general hints at the direction we're heading in. 1/ Substantially simpler, as Dave notes. A few reasons for this; it's easier for 1st time builders, it further separates the FH from Ron's A126, and it will be easier / cheaper for people to offer as flat-packs if they wish to do so (within the terms on the FH site of course).
2/ Raise the tuning frequency a little & let the little units do what they do well, rather than trying to squeeze too much out of them in a small box.
3/ Forgiving enough to allow people to engage in a spot of driver-rolling, if they feel so inclined.
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Guys,
Good news. Made aware of the situation, are doing the right thing. Their website & lit have already been revised. I have just put them in touch with Martin.
I think this was simply a case of a small startup company with lots of details to coveroff, and this one just hadn't been got to yet.
dave
Good news. Made aware of the situation, are doing the right thing. Their website & lit have already been revised. I have just put them in touch with Martin.
I think this was simply a case of a small startup company with lots of details to coveroff, and this one just hadn't been got to yet.
dave
last time i was on the phone w/ him, he was still not to happy about dave, plagiarism, lack of respect, etc.
he might find this quite amusing, "comes around, goes around" or some such?
As with any soap opera, there's more than 2 sides to the story, and enough time has passed that we're all culpable of mis-remembering.
It's too bad that the original Decware forum thread that lead to the development of the FH project was deleted - it was an interesting story arc indeed - along with vituperation and mudslinging, there was some very interesting technical discussions indeed.
Scott - you were there, as were some others
"Not my place to comment on Dave & Ed's relationship; that they don't get on is not exactly news. However, I think you should explain your plagiarism remark."
Yes Scott, you were there;
Why would you want me, or anyone else to re-hash Ed's feelings?
that was pretty harsh wasn't it?
and what lead to the deletion of an entire thread...
Yes, too bad the original Decware forum thread is gone; a lot of interesting discussion, but unfortunately a lot of mudslinging...
At least the party modifying pre-existing commercial design, renaming, blah, blah, was able to get along w/ existing company this time?
Maybe won't escalate out of control, into several forums like last time...
How much explaining do you really want to do?
From how many sides?
If you really want to call Ed, and hear his side, just call him.
I can remember, verbatim, after all those years the answer I got:
"You really have to ask???!!!"
Yes Scott, you were there;
Why would you want me, or anyone else to re-hash Ed's feelings?
that was pretty harsh wasn't it?
and what lead to the deletion of an entire thread...
Yes, too bad the original Decware forum thread is gone; a lot of interesting discussion, but unfortunately a lot of mudslinging...
At least the party modifying pre-existing commercial design, renaming, blah, blah, was able to get along w/ existing company this time?
Maybe won't escalate out of control, into several forums like last time...
How much explaining do you really want to do?
From how many sides?
If you really want to call Ed, and hear his side, just call him.
I can remember, verbatim, after all those years the answer I got:
"You really have to ask???!!!"
Actually gentlemen, to the best of my memory, I wasn't there, unless things kicked off something chronic after I left. I'm not sure why I should be explaining myself to someone who has just called me a liar, but for your information, I recall participating on one or two threads (using the term 'one or two' literally) on the old Decware forum, but IIRC I was discussing primarily TLs / MLTLs. Ed, Martin & Dave all posted on one (might've been both), along with others, myself included. I seem to remember joining the debate fairly late on though.
No, I did not ask you to rehash Ed's views. I do not speak for other people unless asked by them to do so, nor would I expect anyone else to do the same. What I asked was why you were accusing the FH of plagiarism.
Why the bloody hell I've suddenly become the bad guy in all this, I don't know, although I've always seemed to get a fair amount of snide comments from you pal. What your problem is, I don't know, although it's a bit ironic considering the fact that I had almost sod-all to do with the flaming Frugel-Horn.
Either way, I think I've finally had as much of forums as I can stomach. Particularly this one.
No, I did not ask you to rehash Ed's views. I do not speak for other people unless asked by them to do so, nor would I expect anyone else to do the same. What I asked was why you were accusing the FH of plagiarism.
Why the bloody hell I've suddenly become the bad guy in all this, I don't know, although I've always seemed to get a fair amount of snide comments from you pal. What your problem is, I don't know, although it's a bit ironic considering the fact that I had almost sod-all to do with the flaming Frugel-Horn.
Either way, I think I've finally had as much of forums as I can stomach. Particularly this one.
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I don't know why the accusation of plagarism. It is admitted that Ed & the FH started in the same place. The Bucshhorn Mk 1.
This was expanded to accomodate a 4" driver. In Ed's case he pretty much stopped there (picture from 6moons).
The FH on the other hand, changed the folding and detail to something influenced by the B-Horn Mk 1 & Mk 2, got wider, taller, then Ron contributed the deflector, curved mouth, & the supraBaffle adapted from the A126/A166. The FH is much more of a mongrel with hybrid vigor.
Further, an informal single blind test with a set of Hornshoppes, our version of an exploded B-Horn 1, and a level 0 FH, had the Ed-Horn just edging the expB-Horn, and the FH L0 clearly better than the Ed-Horn. That showed us it was worth the effort to bring this project to fruition for the diy community, and now someone has seen fit to use the basics as a platform for the development of a speaker with serious high-end aspirations. All good.
And from what we have learned, both technically, from the POV of what the diy community needs to make it easier to approach and even more versatile, and to accomodate available drivers, the FH Mk3 is making interesting progress. Being held up ATM only due to a case of "Borneo jungle-fungus". Chris is chomping at the bit to do the 1st build.
dave
This was expanded to accomodate a 4" driver. In Ed's case he pretty much stopped there (picture from 6moons).
The FH on the other hand, changed the folding and detail to something influenced by the B-Horn Mk 1 & Mk 2, got wider, taller, then Ron contributed the deflector, curved mouth, & the supraBaffle adapted from the A126/A166. The FH is much more of a mongrel with hybrid vigor.
Further, an informal single blind test with a set of Hornshoppes, our version of an exploded B-Horn 1, and a level 0 FH, had the Ed-Horn just edging the expB-Horn, and the FH L0 clearly better than the Ed-Horn. That showed us it was worth the effort to bring this project to fruition for the diy community, and now someone has seen fit to use the basics as a platform for the development of a speaker with serious high-end aspirations. All good.
And from what we have learned, both technically, from the POV of what the diy community needs to make it easier to approach and even more versatile, and to accomodate available drivers, the FH Mk3 is making interesting progress. Being held up ATM only due to a case of "Borneo jungle-fungus". Chris is chomping at the bit to do the 1st build.
dave
Scott,
Actually, I probably agree w/ you on most points, if we were to actually discuss them, face to face, instead of a few printed lines at a time.
I don't know where the "snide" comment came from, but it doesn't matter.
Hardly care anymore.
Mostly agree w/ having about "as much of forums as I can stomach. Particularly this one..."
Anyway,
I said:
"him" and "he" refers to Eds views, which I do not wish to speak for...
(If I had been speaking for my self I would have said "I...")
Why am I even explaining this, seems so obvious, so juvenile?
At this point I don't even feel like calling Ed to discuss it, it would just stir the pot further...
when chrisb said "Scott - you were there, as were some others," I thought chrisb remembered your being there, or that you had at least read/were familiar with what happened.
I thought this was a public forum, my comments were to the general public.
I don't know (or care) what you had to do with the frugal horn, Ed's horn, Buschorn or anything else,
why you care (or think) anything was addressed to, much less AT you,
why your feelers are bent,
or why you're so important.
but I am tired of being called on the carpet for things as simple as someone not noting the difference between "he" and "I," or just looking for something to argue about...
Too many better things to do with my time.
Actually, I probably agree w/ you on most points, if we were to actually discuss them, face to face, instead of a few printed lines at a time.
I don't know where the "snide" comment came from, but it doesn't matter.
Hardly care anymore.
Mostly agree w/ having about "as much of forums as I can stomach. Particularly this one..."
Anyway,
I said:
last time i was on the phone w/ him, he was still not to happy about dave, plagiarism, lack of respect, etc.
"him" and "he" refers to Eds views, which I do not wish to speak for...
(If I had been speaking for my self I would have said "I...")
Why am I even explaining this, seems so obvious, so juvenile?
At this point I don't even feel like calling Ed to discuss it, it would just stir the pot further...
when chrisb said "Scott - you were there, as were some others," I thought chrisb remembered your being there, or that you had at least read/were familiar with what happened.
I thought this was a public forum, my comments were to the general public.
I don't know (or care) what you had to do with the frugal horn, Ed's horn, Buschorn or anything else,
why you care (or think) anything was addressed to, much less AT you,
why your feelers are bent,
or why you're so important.
but I am tired of being called on the carpet for things as simple as someone not noting the difference between "he" and "I," or just looking for something to argue about...
Too many better things to do with my time.
Oh shut up Gladys, stop trying to come it all innocent. There was no purpose behind your raising the subject unless you either agreed with it, or were simply trying to cause trouble.
Me? Important? Is that supposed to be some form of joke? Of course I'm not important.
I've changed my mind. It's not the Borneo jungle-fungus. I've got the black-death. Apologies Chris, I'll get the dimensions you wanted over to you as-soon-as.
Me? Important? Is that supposed to be some form of joke? Of course I'm not important.
I've changed my mind. It's not the Borneo jungle-fungus. I've got the black-death. Apologies Chris, I'll get the dimensions you wanted over to you as-soon-as.
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serene:
as I noted a few posts above we all demonstrate the capacity for selective mis-remembering ( and I'll add, paranoia) on a recurring basis - but few of us are wrong all the time
yes, there are better ways to expend our time
edit:
and Ed needs no help in the kitchen
Scott:
take your time - get healed first
Don:
I believe the design brief includes - "approx the same form factor", among other things
as I noted a few posts above we all demonstrate the capacity for selective mis-remembering ( and I'll add, paranoia) on a recurring basis - but few of us are wrong all the time
yes, there are better ways to expend our time
edit:
and Ed needs no help in the kitchen
Scott:
take your time - get healed first
Don:
I believe the design brief includes - "approx the same form factor", among other things
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Agreed. Enough. Let us set the differences aside. It's not like they help anyone anyway.
I'll survive Chris; I know we need to get this one moving.
Right, similar form-factor; when we were contemplating the never-realised FH-Mk2 people asked for something a little taller, so their wish is our command.
I'll survive Chris; I know we need to get this one moving.
Right, similar form-factor; when we were contemplating the never-realised FH-Mk2 people asked for something a little taller, so their wish is our command.
Now we're talkin
I remember 'getting into it' here a spell back, because of my opinion and statement of, 'why would anyone bother trying to make a version of the Busch or Ed's in the first place as the driver height issue to me, etc ,etc, etc.'..
We all have differing opinions, likes dislikes etc.. So in my opinion as a non-designer of anything other than my one time take on a BIB, I think for what it's worth
a taller FH could be killer!!! And I mean that in a good wayA fresh version of a FH that is taller would probably show a great improvement over the previous versions, and for those that can swing it, they will most likely want to move up from the previous version to the new...
Just my opinion and that's all it is
PS and Edit: Thanks to all here that make it possible for a person to diy in the first place.. For sharing designs, tips, advice, math skills, opinions etc.. You all know who you are, and we all know who you are, and thanks
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