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Old 19th April 2010, 08:53 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Scottmoose View Post

Gentlemen -get out from under the blanket of this post-feminist (or whatever the heck they're calling it this week) society. Chuck your hair-products in the bin, where they belong, burn the skin-care products & tooth-whitening kits before you end up looking like a US news-anchorman, get out there, buy yourself a Triumph TR6, a train-set, and enjoy your bloody stereo. You're a man. It's not a crime.
Hooray!! I read another thread on this site recently where a guy wanted to make a table radio for the kitchen but was blocked by the wife. He says he had to make it not above a certain size and had to make it 'look old' to fit the antique decor or some such nonsense. You can guess who's in charge in that house. I can't stand it.
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Old 19th April 2010, 11:04 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by FR338 View Post
Although this gentleman said he " have had the chance to live with a few of the models for months". The fact being he shared a listening room with another person who owned feastrex, that is. This gentleman did not have the right to listen to feastrex and the related set up, when the owner was not there, or without the owner's prior permission.
I think I have the right to say this, as I am the owner of two 5 inches models D5nf and D5 of Feastrex when I was sharing a 200 sq. feet listening room with him 2 years ago.
Unless this gentleman can imagine the sound by looking at the speaker, his audition experience with Feastrex is extremely limited. To my memory he had driven D5nf with TA2024 T-amp and a 0.7W single stage 71A tube amp during a time when I borrowed a pair of D5nf to him for two weeks. That was a 36 sq. feet listening room. Listening distance is 3 feet from the speakers to the ears. This is the most extensive listening experience he had with Feastrex, if he had driven them continuously for two weeks, not to mention if it is fairly treated by the gears and the listening place.

On the contrast this gentleman collected a number of vintage German speakers( unfortunately due to a prolonged partial mentoring from me -- of which I regret a lot), at a regardless condition but comparable dollar value or more than the Feastrex 5 inchers. So I am confused when he talked on value against performance.

I am not trying to start a fight here. I even seldom visit this site. But a friend told me someone is writing something deviating from fact , either intentionally or unintentionally. Since this gentleman has been relentlessly attacking Feastrex in a number of Chinese forums, I unfortunately has to write what I believe to be the actual story.
Hi FR338,
Welborn (along with other HK DIYers) have spent time with my drivers recently. From the auditions, they've expresses their views on Markaudio drivers in various forums, some of which I wouldn't agree with, but I readily accept their right to express opinions.

Its very poor to see that you've attacked the personal standing of Welborn rather than staying with technical issues. There is a Feastrex section in the commercial part of this forum where your interests in Feastrex could be better served.

More important. If I understand correctly, you have (or did have) a financial or retail interest in Feastrex. If this is the case, please clearly declare your commercial interest in Feastrex in any future posts.

Regarding the publication of driver performance data, I urge all makers, big or small to publish the following using industry standard equipment (LMS, CLIO, Praxis, MLSSA etc etc):
1 - T/S data sets
2 - Frequency graph (RAW is desirable)
3 - Impedance graph

No doubt I will upset some in the industry. Sorry to be blunt but it's high time parts of the speaker industry cleaned house. Agreed, testing methods and the generated data isn't a perfect solution; But it gives DIYer's a reasonable opportunity to assess drivers for project suitability and to help progress their design work.

Cheers,

Mark.

Last edited by markaudio; 19th April 2010 at 11:12 PM. Reason: additional info.
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Old 19th April 2010, 11:46 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by markaudio View Post
No doubt I will upset some in the industry.
Well aw shucks gee whiz ain't that a shame.
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Old 20th April 2010, 12:03 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by markaudio View Post
Hi FR338,

No doubt I will upset some in the industry. Sorry to be blunt but it's high time parts of the speaker industry cleaned house. Agreed, testing methods and the generated data isn't a perfect solution; But it gives DIYer's a reasonable opportunity to assess drivers for project suitability and to help progress their design work.
Humm.. Let me do some minor clarifications...Firstly, I'm the Feastrex dealer for Singapore.. No I'm not upset.. Yes, I understand the need for data graphs etc.. but for now I just want to highlight that the cabinet design provided by Feastrex works very well ie a well proven design.

I have been trying different variations and improvements to the same box design.. rectangular ports to round ports, additional solid bar bracing to rectangular bracing, increasing plywood thickness from 18mm to 25mm and additional bituman damping .. etc and the improvements are well worth the effort.

My point is .... the correct box design has been given, one just needs to spend more time and effort into building a better cabinet and you are done... it's just that simple.....
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Old 20th April 2010, 12:34 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by BTW View Post
Humm.. Let me do some minor clarifications...Firstly, I'm the Feastrex dealer for Singapore.. No I'm not upset.. Yes, I understand the need for data graphs etc.. but for now I just want to highlight that the cabinet design provided by Feastrex works very well ie a well proven design. I have been trying different variations and improvements to the same box design.. rectangular ports to round ports, additional solid bar bracing to rectangular bracing, increasing plywood thickness from 18mm to 25mm and additional bituman damping .. etc and the improvements are well worth the effort.
My point is .... the correct box design has been given, one just needs to spend more time and effort into building a better cabinet and you are done... it's just that simple.....
Hi BTW,
Glad you've declared your commercial interest. I take your points about experimentation. Indeed, its a necessary and pleasurable part of the hobby.

I'm wouldn't agree with you about the "correct" box design statement. Its very difficult to establish the validity of an optimised design when driver data is not available.

There will never be a box design or any driver type that could be considered "correct". However, its good for hobbyists to try and reach goal where their projects satisfy them. In doing so, the results are often technically excellent.

I believe its important for the future credibility of the whole speaker industry to offer a reasonable range of technical information on their products. I'm not out to knock Feastrex or any other maker in a similar position. However, I am trying to encourage all makers to support a "level playing field" over the issue of data publication.

Cheers

Mark.
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Old 20th April 2010, 12:38 AM   #26
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You didn't address the DIY aspect of raw driver sales, BTW. Any speaker driver sold without a cabinet is assumed to be used 'DIY', right? And even if Feastrex is sold for use with factory developed cabinet designs only, many will try them in just about anything they can dream up. I know I would.
A complete spec sheet has to be included to show us what we are buying and how it may behave in various configurations. Sure, some will build and use the recommended cabinets, but many will not. I for one use a low-Q driver in OB with other woofers; a 'far cry' from the intended use of that design.
A few people will buy a sports car because 'it's fast'. But most of us want to know alot more before dropping 70 Gs.
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Old 20th April 2010, 12:39 AM   #27
FR338 is offline FR338  Hong Kong
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Originally Posted by markaudio View Post
Hi FR338,
Welborn (along with other HK DIYers) have spent time with my drivers recently. From the auditions, they've expresses their views on Markaudio drivers in various forums, some of which I wouldn't agree with, but I readily accept their right to express opinions.

Its very poor to see that you've attacked the personal standing of Welborn rather than staying with technical issues. There is a Feastrex section in the commercial part of this forum where your interests in Feastrex could be better served.

More important. If I understand correctly, you have (or did have) a financial or retail interest in Feastrex. If this is the case, please clearly declare your commercial interest in Feastrex in any future posts.

Regarding the publication of driver performance data, I urge all makers, big or small to publish the following using industry standard equipment (LMS, CLIO, Praxis, MLSSA etc etc):
1 - T/S data sets
2 - Frequency graph (RAW is desirable)
3 - Impedance graph

No doubt I will upset some in the industry. Sorry to be blunt but it's high time parts of the speaker industry cleaned house. Agreed, testing methods and the generated data isn't a perfect solution; But it gives DIYer's a reasonable opportunity to assess drivers for project suitability and to help progress their design work.

Cheers,

Mark.
I think my points was not fully read. No matter I am a dealer, a designer or a father and no matter it is "feastrex", "lowther" or "AER", I was addressing :

1. Someone who I personally know have limited experience with a speaker and posted his elaborated judgement.

2. Someone who I personally know talked on price to performance, while his actual behavior is against this.


My stand point is very clear about internet forums. People come here to look for contributive discussions or possibly some answers. What is the point of continuing the subscription if it is full of irresponsible sayings.

I hope this completed what I was trying to write.

Last edited by FR338; 20th April 2010 at 12:53 AM.
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Old 20th April 2010, 12:53 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by markaudio View Post
Hi BTW,
Glad you've declared your commercial interest. I take your points about experimentation. Indeed, its a necessary and pleasurable part of the hobby.

I'm wouldn't agree with you about the "correct" box design statement. Its very difficult to establish the validity of an optimised design when driver data is not available.

There will never be a box design or any driver type that could be considered "correct". However, its good for hobbyists to try and reach goal where their projects satisfy them. In doing so, the results are often technically excellent.

I believe its important for the future credibility of the whole speaker industry to offer a reasonable range of technical information on their products. I'm not out to knock Feastrex or any other maker in a similar position. However, I am trying to encourage all makers to support a "level playing field" over the issue of data publication.

Cheers

Mark.
Hi Mark,

Thanks for your reply.... If the word "Correct" is too strong for you... I can always accept "Working or OK" cabinet no problems at all.....

I fully understand the need for datas etc... but it's out of my hands it's fully up to Feastrex Japan to do so..

I only responded as I felt there was a need to highlight and clarify that the design for cabinets that "work" are available..

Cheers

William

Last edited by BTW; 20th April 2010 at 01:03 AM. Reason: clarification
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Old 20th April 2010, 01:01 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InclinedPlane View Post
You didn't address the DIY aspect of raw driver sales, BTW. Any speaker driver sold without a cabinet is assumed to be used 'DIY', right? And even if Feastrex is sold for use with factory developed cabinet designs only, many will try them in just about anything they can dream up. I know I would.
A complete spec sheet has to be included to show us what we are buying and how it may behave in various configurations. Sure, some will build and use the recommended cabinets, but many will not. I for one use a low-Q driver in OB with other woofers; a 'far cry' from the intended use of that design.
A few people will buy a sports car because 'it's fast'. But most of us want to know alot more before dropping 70 Gs.

I fully understand what you are getting at.. but as in my reply above to Mark, it's up to Feastrex Japan to do so.

However, want I really want to say again and applies to all Fullrangers as well is.... Once you have a good and sound cabinet design... please take all the time and effort to maximise.... the cabinet structure , bracing, damping, spiking etc.. The difference and improvements will be huge with proper effort.
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Old 20th April 2010, 01:15 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FR338 View Post
No matter I am a dealer, a designer or a father and no matter it is "feastrex", "lowther" or "AER", I was addressing :
1. Someone who I personally know have limited experience will a speaker and posted his elaborated judgement.

2. Someone who I personally know talked on price to performance, while his actual behavior is against this.

My stand point is very clear about internet forums. People come here to look for contributive discussions or possibly some answers. What is the point of continuing the subscription if it is full of irresponsible sayings.
I hope this completed what I was trying to write.
Hi FR338,
OK, now we've established that you have a commercial interest in Feastrex , its up to other forum members to make a judgement call on the neutrality of your comments and opinions.

I understand your frustration. There are times when I feel the same; But as members with commercial interests, we have to self-moderate and act with some restraint. We may not like some of the comments on forums, but we must still respect the rights of ordinary members to say what they think and feel.

You need to act with greater restraint and stay with technical and related issues, rather than continuing to attack a member's personal standing. Frankly speaking, your behaviour so far, is not in keeping with the good nature and "spirit" of this forum.

Mark.

Last edited by markaudio; 20th April 2010 at 01:19 AM. Reason: typo mending
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