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Old 19th April 2010, 11:08 AM   #11
stevieg is offline stevieg  United Kingdom
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I figure we are, at best, maybe 10% of the way to what is possible. It is a tribute to our brains that we can garner so much pleasure from even less than that.
Blimey Dave, whenever I suggest that people freak out. They think you're rubbishing their systems. I usually reply that so far I've never reeled away from a system drunk, with ringing ears and someone else's vomit on my shoes - they're a rowdy lot down at our local opera house.
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Old 19th April 2010, 03:25 PM   #12
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Zaph likes the Jordan JX92S - "If you're convinced there's some sort of magic to a full range driver, this is one of the best, far surpassing most others I've come across."
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Old 19th April 2010, 05:08 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by ScottG View Post
If you factor-in spouses.. you can apply the same reasoning to anything that costs as much as a mid-priced appliance or some in-expensive jewelry. Yeah, you can "catch hell" for a pair of "base" pm6a Lowthers.
As depressing indictment on the current state of the world as you're likely to find. Call me old fashioned if you will but I was always under the impression that relationships were partnerships. A partnership is not defined by one half preventing the other from engaging in their own hobby while doing whatever they like themselves.

Gentlemen -get out from under the blanket of this post-feminist (or whatever the heck they're calling it this week) society. Chuck your hair-products in the bin, where they belong, burn the skin-care products & tooth-whitening kits before you end up looking like a US news-anchorman, get out there, buy yourself a Triumph TR6, a train-set, and enjoy your bloody stereo. You're a man. It's not a crime.

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I figure we are, at best, maybe 10% of the way to what is possible. It is a tribute to our brains that we can garner so much pleasure from even less than that.
Agreed. And the brain is an amazing thing; good job too or we'd never have come down from the trees. Although I'm finding it increasingly difficult these days to argue whenever the suggestion is made that that might have been a mistake.

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Back to the Feastrex. I have had the chance to live with a few of the models for months (i don't own them and I won't buy them). IMHO they may be nice or even superb in some areas. Definitely they are beautifully made but I am not sure about the "nicely" made bit. They are not bad, but I personally do not think they are worth the price tag they are fetching.
Yep, they're certainly very pretty, and obviously lovingly hand-crafted. However, I have to agree with you; hand-made will ultimately never achieve the precision or consistancy possible with machine-making, assuming that is the goal of the latter. It's the only way to consistantly achieve extremely tight tolerances. Whether the Feastrex units are worth the money or not will end up being down to the individual. Not to me they aren't. But they're only worth what people are willing to pay for them, and if people are willing to pay...

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This is the only "expensive" speaker drivers on this planet that has literally no technical information released by the manufacturer.
I too find this situation ludicrous, if not farcical. I do love their website; it's beautifully written. A lot of talk about their philosophy, and 'scrumptious' (seriously!) sound. But someone please point me to a single useful piece of information.

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The entire sales talk is based around that it is the "fastest" drivers ever made. But then how "fast" is fast? and how much faster is it comparing to others?
You know their sales pitch better than I do as my exposure has been minimal. However, a handful of thoughts come to mind on this speed-thing you say they wheel out. First, depends what they mean. If they're talking about transient response, that's inherently linked to BW, so they'll be no better on that score than any other FR driver with similar upward extension. Chris Witmer (may he RIP) measured the D5nf & D9nf for them using WT3 IIRC -a rather odd state of affairs generally IMO, but there it is; and his data indicates a relatively high VC inductance, which is usually associated with relatively restricted upper BW. Having said that, whizzers can do some odd things, so your guess is as good as mine, as they don't provide any information themselves. Not an ideal start though.

FWIW, if we temporarily revert back to good old Newtonian physics (accepting this is not a matter for transient response) and consider the theoretical maximum acceleration factor Γ of the powertrain in meters per second per second per ampere, we have scope for some interesting comparisons...

Feastrex D5nf = 1904ms^2
Fostex FE126En = 2011 ms^2
Lowther DX55 = 2041ms^2

Feastrex D9nf = 754ms^2
Fostex FE206En = 873ms^2
Lowther DX4 = 1071ms^2.

These are not exact comparisons of course as the driver sizes are not equal, although they're in the ballpark & close enough to make a quick gander worthwhile. For reference, based on factory specs. for the Fostex & Lowther & Chris's figures for the Feastrex. In both cases, the last-mentioned possess theoretically slower powertrain acceleration than other units. Make of that what you will.

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Put a "high-pass" on the Jordans (..with a "sub" or integrated bass driver). Then you can play them much louder.
Good call. BW limit the Jordans to >500Hz, let dedicated bass drivers handle everything below that & dynamic BW will be much improved.

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Most would agree that a 5" driver is about best...
I wouldn't.

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I doubt there ever will be a perfect speaker. We'll get somewhere near, as we always do, then say "close enough", then go off to try something new.
There'll never be a perfect transducer as we all want different things, and most DIYers will, as you say, wish to try lots of things out anyway -it's a hobby after all.
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Last edited by Scottmoose; 19th April 2010 at 05:12 PM.
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Old 19th April 2010, 05:10 PM   #14
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For a FAST design one should also consider one of
the mini widerangers from Aura e.g. of course there
are also other manufacturers on the market.

If not crossed too low, such a driver can be a good performer.
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Old 19th April 2010, 05:13 PM   #15
FR338 is offline FR338  Hong Kong
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Originally Posted by welborne View Post
Hi all,

I have to agree with Scottmoose. There is no such thing as being the "best". Audio stuff is all a bag of compromises and at the end of the day it all depends on which attributes you value the most. Bascially compromises shopping.

do you want to use it in a box? or Open baffle? and in OB (that is what i am using), do you roll off bottom and augment it with a big and good quality woofer such as my 18" or you want to use one fullrange on a big baffle for the entire audible frequency range? etc etc.

Back to the Feastrex. I have had the chance to live with a few of the models for months (i don't own them and I won't buy them). IMHO they may be nice or even superb in some areas. Definitely they are beautifully made but I am not sure about the "nicely" made bit. They are not bad, but I personally do not think they are worth the price tag they are fetching.

This is the only "expensive" speaker drivers on this planet that has literally no technical information released by the manufacturer. The entire sales talk is based around that it is the "fastest" drivers ever made. But then how "fast" is fast? and how much faster is it comparing to others? What about the frequency response measurement? Are the Feastrex line of drivers that unusual in other more important aspects that reasonably correct tonal balance can be overlooked? I don't have answers just yet.

I listened to Mark's Alpair 12 about 2 weeks ago at his office. I personally think they are pretty impressive stuff. They were in a Pencil 12 box made of japanese solid birch. Very nice, ultra resolving and shocking bass. I just wish they could be more sensitive so that i could use them with a 2-watt DHT. Surely if I want i can still find "faults" here and there (that's why you keep seeing manufacturers pulling out version 1, 2, 3 ...etc), but the same applies to almost all other fullrange I have heard, and more often than not, the "faults" that we are thinking perhaps are nothing more than a reflection of personal taste. All drivers are flawed in one way or others, so it does not make sense to me to spend $$$$$$$$ on a fullrange because I can guarantee you that even with that $$$$$$$ you will not get "full" range sound.
Sorry for jumping in.
Although this gentleman said he " have had the chance to live with a few of the models for months"
The fact being he shared a listening room with another person who owned feastrex, that is. This gentleman did not have the right to listen to feastrex and the related set up, when the owner was not there, or without the owner's prior permission.

I think I have the right to say this, as I am the owner of two 5 inches models D5nf and D5 of Feastrex when I was sharing a 200 sq. feet listening room with him 2 years ago.

Unless this gentleman can imagine the sound by looking at the speaker, his audition experience with Feastrex is extremely limited. To my memory he had driven D5nf with TA2024 T-amp and a 0.7W single stage 71A tube amp during a time when I borrowed a pair of D5nf to him for two weeks. That was a 36 sq. feet listening room. Listening distance is 3 feet from the speakers to the ears. This is the most extensive listening experience he had with Feastrex, if he had driven them continuously for two weeks, not to mention if it is fairly treated by the gears and the listening place.

On the contrast this gentleman collected a number of vintage German speakers( unfortunately due to a prolonged partial mentoring from me -- of which I regret a lot), at a regardless condition but comparable dollar value or more than the Feastrex 5 inchers. So I am confused when he talked on value against performance.

I am not trying to start a fight here. I even seldom visit this site. But a friend told me someone is writing something deviating from fact , either intentionally or unintentionally. Since this gentleman has been relentlessly attacking Feastrex in a number of Chinese forums, I unfortunately has to write what I believe to be the actual story.

That's all I am to contribute to this thread.
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Old 19th April 2010, 05:45 PM   #16
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I think it is very fair to say that very few information about the drivers have been released by the manufacturer, at least to the end users if not to the agents who are selling them.

I did guess that those who made them did take a good measurement of the products but never care about publishing them. The whole sales pitch will rely on the individual salesman's creativity and charisma.

It is fair to say that all my comments on the Feastrex drivers are just my own view but they are what I heard. But I am not alone.

There are always some people who would swear by some drivers, and some people who would hate them. Such is the case. It is very normal.

The discussion here started out as "what is the best drivers". My opinion is there is nothing called the best. Feastrex isn't neither. i don't know what is.

I get insane about calling a driver well made and then it will sound terrible with the "ordinary" amps out there, and only starting to sound right with some specially tailor made amps. If this is true, most drivers can sound like others if we can make a special amp for each drivers on earth based on its characteristics.

Sorry gentleman. I am not scientist nor PHD in physics. I just follow my own ears.
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Old 19th April 2010, 06:10 PM   #17
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I feel glad that I do not sell any speaker drivers myself, otherwise I will be obliged to crawl up and down all days and nights throughout the year spying on " where who said what" about my products.

A way to defend a product is by discussing about it more and releasing more useful information, discrediting other's opinion based on oneself's creative thinking and personal attack is gonna be futile and wont' help.
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Old 19th April 2010, 06:30 PM   #18
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<Yawn....>
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Old 19th April 2010, 06:51 PM   #19
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>>> Chris Witmer (may he RIP)

I did not know this! When did this happen?

I think there are many 'best' drivers out there.
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Old 19th April 2010, 07:43 PM   #20
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Apart from using my own cheap and ugly stuff ( they are, and i don't mind about this at all) with the beautiful Feastrex, I have also heard them driven by Promitheus tube amp and Promitheus dac, secret cables (simply because i don't know the brand, sorry ) on one occasion, and another earlier by an owner-expert-modded Sun Audio 2a3, open reel tape etc. I did not tell the owners my honest opinion about the sound as I felt I was in the middle of an embarrassing moment. I was just being too polite and kind on both occasions.

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