Yes, all those builds are quite fresh and just taking off. Info will come with time.
Funny you mention the Beta-8A. I plan on getting a pair of Alpha 8As instead of the Silver Flute W20s. I'll probably do both and see which I like better. The Beta can't dig down past 100hz without going ported. But you're using subs, sooo...
The DNA-350 would be fine for an 8". In fact, it would be overkill. I may do it, but still thinking the DNA-150 is more than enough. Time will tell.
I'm sure the combination of DNA-350 and 18Sound would work fine, but is there a design available for it? Unless you can rigorously design one of those cross overs, you won't like it. Pro Drivers, Compression Drivers, and Horns sound really bad unless they're muscled into place. They aren't exactly user friendly. You may end up with a bad taste in your mouth.
Funny you mention the Beta-8A. I plan on getting a pair of Alpha 8As instead of the Silver Flute W20s. I'll probably do both and see which I like better. The Beta can't dig down past 100hz without going ported. But you're using subs, sooo...
The DNA-350 would be fine for an 8". In fact, it would be overkill. I may do it, but still thinking the DNA-150 is more than enough. Time will tell.
I'm sure the combination of DNA-350 and 18Sound would work fine, but is there a design available for it? Unless you can rigorously design one of those cross overs, you won't like it. Pro Drivers, Compression Drivers, and Horns sound really bad unless they're muscled into place. They aren't exactly user friendly. You may end up with a bad taste in your mouth.
Just a little hint. Even the WAF-1 found here: Small and/or WAF builds using the Denovo stuff
Goes very loud when crossed over at 90hz to a sub. It's tiny ineffecient 5.25" woofer is by far the limiter. You can see in my power sweeps I did 102db or more and it didn't even flinch. The trick is proper cross over placement to not excite break up in the woofer and not stress the tweeter. Most domes you're listening to in the hifi stores would crumble under my torter tests. I've tested $100 domes that are sweating badly under that test. (The advantage of the dome is dead flat frequency response.)
And 8" pro driver with a large format horn and CD will not dissapoint in the dynamics category.
Goes very loud when crossed over at 90hz to a sub. It's tiny ineffecient 5.25" woofer is by far the limiter. You can see in my power sweeps I did 102db or more and it didn't even flinch. The trick is proper cross over placement to not excite break up in the woofer and not stress the tweeter. Most domes you're listening to in the hifi stores would crumble under my torter tests. I've tested $100 domes that are sweating badly under that test. (The advantage of the dome is dead flat frequency response.)
And 8" pro driver with a large format horn and CD will not dissapoint in the dynamics category.
Is there a problem using ported for the Beta-8A?
How high can I XO the SDX10? I thought that 80Hz would be the optimal XO...
Overkill in which way? I have the money to afford the 350 or the 360.
I don't know if there's a design available for it. Seems to be pretty few designs with the Denovo tweeters but AFAIK the DNA-360 is almost the same as the popular B&C DE250 so maybe it's possible to use the same crossovers too?
How high can I XO the SDX10? I thought that 80Hz would be the optimal XO...
Overkill in which way? I have the money to afford the 350 or the 360.
I don't know if there's a design available for it. Seems to be pretty few designs with the Denovo tweeters but AFAIK the DNA-360 is almost the same as the popular B&C DE250 so maybe it's possible to use the same crossovers too?
1. Ha, that's been quite the topic of debate around the DIY Sound Group builds over on AVSforum. Most feel that they should be sealed to integrate properly with subs because of the phase roll of the port. Others feel it doesn't matter. I'm not much of a box guy, so maybe ask around.
2. Hmm, I shouldn't answer that. But I've heard people are using the SDX quite high. As long as the 2-ways are sitting on top, probably fine going quite high. Check around first though.
3. Overkill only in a good way. And as long as you can find a design that suits what you're wanting.
4. Yup, it's very similar and would probably work as a direct substitute.
2. Hmm, I shouldn't answer that. But I've heard people are using the SDX quite high. As long as the 2-ways are sitting on top, probably fine going quite high. Check around first though.
3. Overkill only in a good way. And as long as you can find a design that suits what you're wanting.
4. Yup, it's very similar and would probably work as a direct substitute.
Or maybe I should go back to what I was thinking from the beginning, building something already finished and just follow the drawings...
Designing a crossover and all that is probably beyond my skills but I do not fear woodworking.
So this is the one I've been looking at Jenzen CA
But maybe having an active XO between bass and mid instead to cut down on filter costs?
Will have to decide for something soon or I'll be building the Mar-Kel70 in birchply just for the sake of having something to show up as my project work at school...
Designing a crossover and all that is probably beyond my skills but I do not fear woodworking.
So this is the one I've been looking at Jenzen CA
But maybe having an active XO between bass and mid instead to cut down on filter costs?
Will have to decide for something soon or I'll be building the Mar-Kel70 in birchply just for the sake of having something to show up as my project work at school...
Perhaps I misunderstand how that speaker works (only looking at photos), but that is a stupid combination. Neither speaker makes very much bass.
If you do like that look, do what I've been saying all along. Alpha 8 over your choice of subwoofer and under a nice CD/waveguide combination. Some of the images look like a better bass driver than the alpha 8, so maybe they've chenged it or something. That would be what you want to do.
And the tweeter is a mystery.
Are you picking your speaker choices based on looks? Usually not a good idea.
If you do like that look, do what I've been saying all along. Alpha 8 over your choice of subwoofer and under a nice CD/waveguide combination. Some of the images look like a better bass driver than the alpha 8, so maybe they've chenged it or something. That would be what you want to do.
And the tweeter is a mystery.
Are you picking your speaker choices based on looks? Usually not a good idea.
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Apparently the lower woofer is a passive radiator.
The thing with CD/waveguide is that I'd have to design my own passive filter and I fear that's way above my skill level.
Not picking on looks, just getting inspiration
What about the Alpair 12p? Would it be able to play loud enough? In that case maybe an Alpair 12P crossed over to some woofer at like 200-400Hz? That way I would avoid XO in the sensitive area. But how high do the 12P go? Maybe I would need a tweeter?
The thing with CD/waveguide is that I'd have to design my own passive filter and I fear that's way above my skill level.
Not picking on looks, just getting inspiration
What about the Alpair 12p? Would it be able to play loud enough? In that case maybe an Alpair 12P crossed over to some woofer at like 200-400Hz? That way I would avoid XO in the sensitive area. But how high do the 12P go? Maybe I would need a tweeter?
to exactly which speaker do you refer, and have you heard them?
If the WLM Lyra, or any of Martin's other designs, there are numerous on-line reviews that could dispute the assertion of "stupid combinations" - to paraphrase these fora re Zaph - "these guys know their onions"
While WLM has probably become most well known for their active systems, buried in Srajan's full review of the Grand Viola is a short history of the evolution of the Lyra passive design.
6moons audio reviews: WLM Grand Viola Signature MkII
disclaimer: as I presume to be the case of many of us here, I've never heard any of the WLM products, but they certainly have the appearance of well engineered designs.
for those of us that share your fear or lack of expertise in filter design, there are plenty of folks here glad to offer assistance
The Alpair12P does a lot of things very nicely, but even if XO'd to dual woofers, and tweeter if deemed necessary ( at a certain age or with damaged hearing, the "returns on investment" could diminish), would not be my first choice for a "play loud enough"? system.Not picking on looks, just getting inspiration
What about the Alpair 12p? Would it be able to play loud enough? In that case maybe an Alpair 12P crossed over to some woofer at like 200-400Hz? That way I would avoid XO in the sensitive area. But how high do the 12P go? Maybe I would need a tweeter?
If for no other reason than confidence in durability at louder SPLs, I think Ryan's advice to consider something along the lines of Pro Audio components might be your best bet.
Yes, but would these other people be able to make it simple enough for me? I have no experience or knowledge at all when it comes to crossovers and it seems like a very difficult topic to study.
I don't want to play at rock festival levels. As I said, the System Audio speakers I tried a couple of months ago could play loud enough and when I played louder than I'd ever do here at home I hit around 108-110dB peak levels.
I don't want to play at rock festival levels. As I said, the System Audio speakers I tried a couple of months ago could play loud enough and when I played louder than I'd ever do here at home I hit around 108-110dB peak levels.
Rullknufs: Stick with a multi-way to satisfy your dynamic needs right now. Go crazy and build something nuts. Unless you want to now get away from that and get back into the finesse of a full ranger.
A beta 8a with a passive radiator would make even less bass. That's just silly. Are there subs on the back?
As for passive cross over design, there should be a few out there. I think Zilch made an econo wave mini. I have one coming down the pipeline for that driver. It'll be after I do a build using the Delta 10a though. If you can bear a wider design, there's already some 10" and 12" designs available.
Chrisb: I've heard the alpha 8a and it can make some bass when ported, but that's still a stupid combination. Why use an effecient pro mid driver for bass duty when you're using an effecient pro mid driver for mid driver duty. Like I said, perhaps there's more to it. I can't read the languages that most of the documenation is in.
We're talking about the speaker pictured at the very bottom of the link you posted? It has a beta 8 and an alpha 8... Most of the pictures feature a different driver combination. I think the configuration is worthy of exploration for Rullknufs. Just with a proper woofer rather than an effecient pro mid.
A beta 8a with a passive radiator would make even less bass. That's just silly. Are there subs on the back?
As for passive cross over design, there should be a few out there. I think Zilch made an econo wave mini. I have one coming down the pipeline for that driver. It'll be after I do a build using the Delta 10a though. If you can bear a wider design, there's already some 10" and 12" designs available.
Chrisb: I've heard the alpha 8a and it can make some bass when ported, but that's still a stupid combination. Why use an effecient pro mid driver for bass duty when you're using an effecient pro mid driver for mid driver duty. Like I said, perhaps there's more to it. I can't read the languages that most of the documenation is in.
We're talking about the speaker pictured at the very bottom of the link you posted? It has a beta 8 and an alpha 8... Most of the pictures feature a different driver combination. I think the configuration is worthy of exploration for Rullknufs. Just with a proper woofer rather than an effecient pro mid.
posting while posting
Yes, but didn't you say those System Audio speakers were crapping out on you? If you find a cross over design you like, I can help walk you through assembly. Especially if it's simple, it's not bad. Or find a design with active settings and use your minidsp. I usually do an active design for everything I build.
Perhaps you could scale back from the pro stuff and try a 6.5" 2 way with a subwoofer. I'd still use a waveguide. At high volumes, flush mounted domes crumple. I've been there, done that. They have their use, and I use them all the time, but to really be dynamic and effortless it has to have low end gain from a waveguide.
Take this cheesy design for example: Small and/or WAF builds using the Denovo stuff
3rd one down called WAF-2.y. Uses a cheap woofer, cheap CD/waveguide. Has active settings. Now, it's not the most hifi thing going, but it's purpose built. I finally knew I liked this speaker when I played a real dramatic mellow song by Diana Krall at insanely loud levels. It's a quite song so I deceptively kept turning up the volume. Until she really belted a very emotional part of the song at ear splitting levels. Well, that tiny little box with cheap drivers, sounded deadly clean. Tingles down the spine clean.
The only dome I've heard come close to that is the CSS LD25x in a waveguide. Which Dave has a design coming for that. That will be more hifi, but cost more. If you're patient, that might be quite the ticket in smaller form and higher fidelity.
And if I can keep rambling on like a blabbering bafoon, my EL70 desktop setup, still blows my mind. Best imaging and detail of anything I've heard. Period. < Just doesn't have the realism of sitting back 3m and cranking it > I'm interested to see what alpair 7s could do on my desk.
Yes, but didn't you say those System Audio speakers were crapping out on you? If you find a cross over design you like, I can help walk you through assembly. Especially if it's simple, it's not bad. Or find a design with active settings and use your minidsp. I usually do an active design for everything I build.
Perhaps you could scale back from the pro stuff and try a 6.5" 2 way with a subwoofer. I'd still use a waveguide. At high volumes, flush mounted domes crumple. I've been there, done that. They have their use, and I use them all the time, but to really be dynamic and effortless it has to have low end gain from a waveguide.
Take this cheesy design for example: Small and/or WAF builds using the Denovo stuff
3rd one down called WAF-2.y. Uses a cheap woofer, cheap CD/waveguide. Has active settings. Now, it's not the most hifi thing going, but it's purpose built. I finally knew I liked this speaker when I played a real dramatic mellow song by Diana Krall at insanely loud levels. It's a quite song so I deceptively kept turning up the volume. Until she really belted a very emotional part of the song at ear splitting levels. Well, that tiny little box with cheap drivers, sounded deadly clean. Tingles down the spine clean.
The only dome I've heard come close to that is the CSS LD25x in a waveguide. Which Dave has a design coming for that. That will be more hifi, but cost more. If you're patient, that might be quite the ticket in smaller form and higher fidelity.
And if I can keep rambling on like a blabbering bafoon, my EL70 desktop setup, still blows my mind. Best imaging and detail of anything I've heard. Period. < Just doesn't have the realism of sitting back 3m and cranking it > I'm interested to see what alpair 7s could do on my desk.
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6.5" could work, if it will play loud and dynamic enough. Even if I got with an 8" I'd still need a subwoofer to reach that 30-35Hz I want.
I could wait maybe 1½ month, then I have to decide to build something. I'm going to a hifi show in Gothenburg on september 15-17 with my dad and maybe I could get some inspiration there.
I could wait maybe 1½ month, then I have to decide to build something. I'm going to a hifi show in Gothenburg on september 15-17 with my dad and maybe I could get some inspiration there.
Ryan:
yes, even when Srajan and manufacturers with whom he may dialog in such lengthy reviews both write in English, the prose is oft "otherworldly / arcane" enough that it might as well be Norse, but FWIW here are some snips that I think describe the current configuration of the Lyra II that Niklas mentioned several posts above:
so exactly what is the mid-bass driver compliment and enclosure tuning configuration of the current LyraII - I gave up google-searching to attempt to ascertain that after a few minutes - your guess is as good as mine
what is the PAC, you ask?
Now, from the ridiculous to the sublimely affordable - how about those EL70s? - maybe I said before how freaking great I think they are. In the application you envision ( small desk-top/near field) I think you could expect the Alpair7 to do image, top end and inner detail like crazy, but not to deliver anywhere near the bass of the EL70
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yes, even when Srajan and manufacturers with whom he may dialog in such lengthy reviews both write in English, the prose is oft "otherworldly / arcane" enough that it might as well be Norse, but FWIW here are some snips that I think describe the current configuration of the Lyra II that Niklas mentioned several posts above:
so exactly what is the mid-bass driver compliment and enclosure tuning configuration of the current LyraII - I gave up google-searching to attempt to ascertain that after a few minutes - your guess is as good as mine
what is the PAC, you ask?
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Now, from the ridiculous to the sublimely affordable - how about those EL70s? - maybe I said before how freaking great I think they are. In the application you envision ( small desk-top/near field) I think you could expect the Alpair7 to do image, top end and inner detail like crazy, but not to deliver anywhere near the bass of the EL70
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The EL70 are great, to non-complex music at average levels. My application is not small desk-top/near field. Listening distance is about 3m in a ~16sqm room.