Aye.
I've been thinking about projects i'd like to do in the future. Like a Troels DTQWT as a final build. I expect it to play like speakers for $20k or more. I've found that the Burmester B80 could be built for less than one tenth of its price
Well, a single FR wouldn't be able to achieve the same SPL as the DTQWT would. I don't see how a FR driver would play with high spl at ~25Hz.
What's the flaw you're talking about? And what's the problem with the XO?
A single FR wouldn't play as load, but a FAST could likely.
The fatal flaw is that the midrange is going to be modulated by the bass drivers since they are in the same enclosure. It would also be interesting to see a sim, since most voigts get quit rippley without some sort of mass load.
XOs are evil, if one needs to use one, it should not be in the ears most sensitive area (ie 2-4k) and drivers need to be real close (relative to the XO frequency, 1/2 w/l).
DTQWT might work fine (probably does witin the context) and i could be out to lunch, but it is hard to imagine not being able to take the same bass drivers, a pair of Alpair10.2 and an extra amp and not be able to come up with something more seamless for less money.
dave
The fatal flaw is that the midrange is going to be modulated by the bass drivers since they are in the same enclosure. It would also be interesting to see a sim, since most voigts get quit rippley without some sort of mass load.
XOs are evil, if one needs to use one, it should not be in the ears most sensitive area (ie 2-4k) and drivers need to be real close (relative to the XO frequency, 1/2 w/l).
DTQWT might work fine (probably does witin the context) and i could be out to lunch, but it is hard to imagine not being able to take the same bass drivers, a pair of Alpair10.2 and an extra amp and not be able to come up with something more seamless for less money.
dave
If i want to reach house-rumbling sound levels? I feel that i can't really play loud enough with my Mar-Kel70. And for rock music it sounds like it gets too much for one driver. Sounds completely different (and better) on my headphones (yes i know it's also like full-range).
Music i listen to (and i like to listen as loud as possible) is like this
Slipping Into Coma - Raised Fist - Spotify
Age of Rage - Corroded - Spotify
The Walk - Periphery - Spotify
Legion - Slaughterlord Cover - At The Gates - Spotify
Numb - Disturbed - Spotify
And with a floorstander it gets easier to place them compared to standmounts and separate subs. I could use the Reckhorn S-1 for XO, since it's AFAIK a good XO. But i'd need several amps, and that brings the costs up.
FAST your EL70 and just see how much more can be had out of them...
My suggestion was for A10.2 which being larger will have more dynamic capability. One should be able to easily aquire an amp within the budget saved from A10.2 vrs midbass+waveguide tweeter and all those XO parts (the big coils are $73 each all by themselves)
dave
My suggestion was for A10.2 which being larger will have more dynamic capability. One should be able to easily aquire an amp within the budget saved from A10.2 vrs midbass+waveguide tweeter and all those XO parts (the big coils are $73 each all by themselves)
dave
Rullknufs,
I am no expert, but maybe you should try the Micro Towers (bi-pole design)... Chrisb says bass is huge with 2 EL70/cabinet.
Otherwise as Mr. Dlugos has pointed out you should consider FAST... I am in love with FR when it comes to most of the music, but not so when it comes to metal or thrash. the BIBs with Fostex FE166en which sounds spacious and dynamic on other types music sound much smaller and thinner when it comes to metal... For me I have realized that will probably have to go FAST in the long run... rgd headphones I have always had my best metal/thrash listening on headphones.
I have Super Pensil 12s and Castle MT made though... need to try them out first.
-Zia
I am no expert, but maybe you should try the Micro Towers (bi-pole design)... Chrisb says bass is huge with 2 EL70/cabinet.
Otherwise as Mr. Dlugos has pointed out you should consider FAST... I am in love with FR when it comes to most of the music, but not so when it comes to metal or thrash. the BIBs with Fostex FE166en which sounds spacious and dynamic on other types music sound much smaller and thinner when it comes to metal... For me I have realized that will probably have to go FAST in the long run... rgd headphones I have always had my best metal/thrash listening on headphones.
I have Super Pensil 12s and Castle MT made though... need to try them out first.
-Zia
I have been thinking of a dual-driver Castle-style Micro Tower, but i don't think it would be enough. With my Mar-Kel70 i feel i lack the dynamics and bass impact when listening to the music i posted above. Like the song "Slipping Into Coma" with Raised Fist the bass guitar sounds tiny and weak. On my headphones it sounds as a bass guitar should do.
I don't think 2 drivers is gonna do it for you on their own. 2 drivers would bring you close to the A10 in dynamics and allow a lower XO, but you are still likely going to need those 2 off 2x10, 2x12 or 15"
Relieving the mid-tweeter of bass duties has an amazingly transformative affect when playing the kind of stuff you are having trouble with.
dave
Relieving the mid-tweeter of bass duties has an amazingly transformative affect when playing the kind of stuff you are having trouble with.
dave
Dave would be able to comment on this better - but I remember Scott Lindgren commenting in one of the "FR and Metal" type of posts that metal and rock music stress the 60Hz -110 Hz range of the drivers most, and this range is not the strongest for FR drivers... maybe because of that some sounds will not carry the weight we expect? I guess pop and synth bass comes out pretty good. Like the beat and bass in Kylie Minogue's (yes Dave I chose Kylie on purpose
) Je ne sais pas pourquoi sounded full and quite heavy... also same with most new age instrumentals... not so with metal (specially from mid volume levels). It looks like other frequencies get boosted more quickly and you are left with a thin sound. You can try playing around with an software equalizer and draw some more conclusions.I am eagerly waiting for my carpenter to get well so that he can finish my Castle MTs.
-Zia
But the A10.2 still has overall better sound than the EL70 i guess since it's almost 3x as expensive. Although it would be cheaper for me to just buy another pair of EL70 than a pair of A10.2
What woofers could be used? Prio one is to get them to match the full-range drivers well. I don't want the bass to be overwhelming, slow or inaudible. I want bass that is there when it is needed, and it fits well into the sound. Need no teenage rumbling.
Will hook up the S-1 tomorrow and play around with different XO and hear myself if it will clear up the sound.
Dave would be able to comment on this better - but I remember Scott Lindgren commenting in one of the "FR and Metal" type of posts that metal and rock music stress the 60Hz -110 Hz range of the drivers most, and this range is not the strongest for FR drivers... maybe because of that some sounds will not carry the weight we expect? I guess pop and synth bass comes out pretty good. Like the beat and bass in Kylie Minogue's (yes Dave I chose Kylie on purpose
I am eagerly waiting for my carpenter to get well so that he can finish my Castle MTs.
-Zia
Yes, the "electronic" bass comes out well. Like the one in this song Beverly Hills Cop (Axel F) - Movie Best Themes - Spotify
I think it's only available on spotify though
This song also works out well Suliman - Infected Mushroom - Spotify
And ofcourse this song Jungle Bill - Single Version - Yello - Spotify
That Yello song is one of my personal favorites. It gets just better the louder it is. The bass should not be too loud like most teenage systems. Just being able to play loud and clear and feel the bass in your chest.
For this song Minimal Animal - Krumelur - Spotify i run out of excursion very early. But i guess this is deeper than normal bass.
Also for this i run out of excursion way too early to play at decent levels Poem Of Chinese Drum - Hok-man Yim, Traditional - Spotify
You need bass drivers with extended HF response. Look for woofers, not subwoofers. Zia meantions the midbass... to cover this stuff really only requires 30-40 Hz. (32 Hz is nice since that is low note on a bass)
I chose 4 x SDX10 for my low woofers (and in my statement build will also have 4xSDX7 per side) to give me XO flexibility. (ie a FAST + subwoofers)
But one can achieve good things with less. 2 or 4 of these per side in Scott's ML-TL produce quite good results Markaudio woofer No 6 W - Lautsprecher Selbstbau by blue planet acoustic
dave
I chose 4 x SDX10 for my low woofers (and in my statement build will also have 4xSDX7 per side) to give me XO flexibility. (ie a FAST + subwoofers)
But one can achieve good things with less. 2 or 4 of these per side in Scott's ML-TL produce quite good results Markaudio woofer No 6 W - Lautsprecher Selbstbau by blue planet acoustic
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dave
What does my dad have to do with this?
dave
Everything!
Without a Mr. Dlugos, there'd be no Dave Dlugos. Without a Dave Dlugos, there'd be no Ruth Dlugos. Without a Ruth Dlugos, there'd be no order at the DIY Fest, the forests would have been set on fire and a whole bunch of Audio Idiots would be walking around wondering why there's no place to try out their gear.
Personally speaking, I'd be without a friend and the World would be a "much" smaller place. (As an aside, Dave "is" a physically large person and like they say: There ain't no replacement for displacement!)
As a matter of fact, I actually was thinking about your Dad the other day, when I was out chopping wood.
Best Regards,
Terry
There is no Ruth Dlugos... Ruth de Fehr (at least not here, google shows one in NY)
dave
Interesting. €38 per side isn't that much. But will they sound nice? Integrate well with the EL70?
Any cabinet tips?
For low woofers i do have my cheapish subs which are compared to the Peerless SLS10 if i'd want some deepers bass (i doubt though).
Is there any differences between the black and white version of the markaudio woofers?
Any cabinet tips?
For low woofers i do have my cheapish subs which are compared to the Peerless SLS10 if i'd want some deepers bass (i doubt though).
Is there any differences between the black and white version of the markaudio woofers?