Maybe a Tysen with EL70 and SDX7 or what the name was?
Trying to find some birchplywood. Think i'll find it soon
what exactly is the question?
From my point of view, the "Tysen" was an experiment to combine the stunning little Fostex FF85K and mid-woofers in as compact a form factor as possible. FWIW, I'd be inclined to use a different name if other driver complement was utilized.
We just happened to have CSS SDX7 woofers on hand, and they certainly fit the bill in terms of performance/size ratio, but no doubt there are any number of suitable and even lower cost candidates for the bass support.
Of course the general concept of what has been dubbed "FAST" could easily be accomplished with any of the smaller Mark Audio drivers serving as mid/tweeter - for example, the Alpair 5.
There are a huge number of possible Tysen-inspired FAST systems. The next one we are working on will use 2 #6 MA woofers per side and a replaceable HF module. Modules for FF85 & Alpair 5 are 1st on the agenda, but (except for getting XO right), EL70, CHR70, Alpair 7, or <pick your favorite 6" or less FR here> can all fit.
dave
dave
Bass drivers should be here shortly (coming by air from HK, then by Canada Post from Abbotsford).
The box design (1st pass) is done. Chris will be able to blast them off pretty quick. The HF cabinet i have envisioned is a bit more complex, but impedance should be similar, but flatter than Tysen HF.
Raw prototype, free air impedance for woofers here http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mark...-woofer-1-silk-tweet-combo-5.html#post2023581, we'll be usig 2 in parallel
dave
The box design (1st pass) is done. Chris will be able to blast them off pretty quick. The HF cabinet i have envisioned is a bit more complex, but impedance should be similar, but flatter than Tysen HF.
Raw prototype, free air impedance for woofers here http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mark...-woofer-1-silk-tweet-combo-5.html#post2023581, we'll be usig 2 in parallel
dave
Sorry - I guess I was a bit quick off the starting blocks here.
I´d need frequency and impedance response as numbers, not plots (I still work with AudioCad, the greyhairedest sim prog in compooter history) and measured in the intended cabs to try for a Xover.
Should have remembered SOP: "Switch brain on before using keyboard"
I´d need frequency and impedance response as numbers, not plots (I still work with AudioCad, the greyhairedest sim prog in compooter history) and measured in the intended cabs to try for a Xover.
Should have remembered SOP: "Switch brain on before using keyboard"
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Should be possible to buy plywood from Nordicply
Emailed them yesterday but haven't been aswered yet.
But. Feels like FAST is the thing i'm looking for. What drivers will i be using, what cabinet? What do you recommend?
I saw the SDX7 costed 100$ each so that's 210-220$ with shipping. If the fr drivers costs let's say 70-80 each? What do you recommend?
Btw, i do need a pretty good punch at the bass.
Audioslave - Shadow On The Sun
Disturbed - Conflict (After 3:10)
Rage Against The Machine - Bombtrack
I was at a swedish Hi-Fi store on the tuesday listening to NAD T747 and B&W DM684 and i didn't like listening to those tracks above with that setup. They lacked too much in the bottom, much better at home. Ofc it was all different when turning on Nils Lofgren - Acoustic Live but that was quite obvious.
And after that i went listening to NAD M3 and B&W DM683. They were a little better but still it felt like the bottom was missing.
After that i went to another room containing a pair of Dali Helicon 400 Mk2 speakers powered by some Lyngdorf stereo amp costing around 2200$. They were MUCH better, only missing a very very little at the very bottom.
I understand that the room has a big effect on the bass, but still. Will the SDX7 be able to deliver what i want in my room? Since the speakers will stand pretty close to the wall and one in a corner.
Btw, i bought some stone plates on tuesday aswell. Places my speakers and my sub on them but didn't notice any big difference in floor vibration or sound. Why?
Emailed them yesterday but haven't been aswered yet.
But. Feels like FAST is the thing i'm looking for. What drivers will i be using, what cabinet? What do you recommend?
I saw the SDX7 costed 100$ each so that's 210-220$ with shipping. If the fr drivers costs let's say 70-80 each? What do you recommend?
Btw, i do need a pretty good punch at the bass.
Audioslave - Shadow On The Sun
Disturbed - Conflict (After 3:10)
Rage Against The Machine - Bombtrack
I was at a swedish Hi-Fi store on the tuesday listening to NAD T747 and B&W DM684 and i didn't like listening to those tracks above with that setup. They lacked too much in the bottom, much better at home. Ofc it was all different when turning on Nils Lofgren - Acoustic Live but that was quite obvious.
And after that i went listening to NAD M3 and B&W DM683. They were a little better but still it felt like the bottom was missing.
After that i went to another room containing a pair of Dali Helicon 400 Mk2 speakers powered by some Lyngdorf stereo amp costing around 2200$. They were MUCH better, only missing a very very little at the very bottom.
I understand that the room has a big effect on the bass, but still. Will the SDX7 be able to deliver what i want in my room? Since the speakers will stand pretty close to the wall and one in a corner.
Btw, i bought some stone plates on tuesday aswell. Places my speakers and my sub on them but didn't notice any big difference in floor vibration or sound. Why?
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That certainly looks like the right plywood - hopefully the "at your door" price will be within your budget.
As mentioned earlier, we happened to have the SDX7 on hand - there are probably more than a few lower cost candidates that would suffice for the bass driver.
As for the FR driver, have you firmed your decision as to brand? If you're not already aware, the local distributor for MarkAudio is :
Dealer Listing for Sweden | Markaudio
If you're interested in the paper coned OEM drivers by Mark, I'm sure he could advise where they'd be available.
and since the original Tysen included Fostex:
benum.se
of course, I'm not certain if they carry the DIY raw drivers - no doubt other forum members could clarify that point
After lots of clicking around on that finnish website i found some drivers.
The CSS EL70's are 49euro each
The CSS SDX7 are 129euro each
The MA CHR-70's are 49euro each
On CSS website:
The EL70 are 45$ each
The SDX7 are 100$ each
The CHR-70 are 37.50$ each
Much cheaper on other places than that finnish place. The $ is around 7SEK and the € is around 10SEK. Big difference in prices.
So, if i get SDX7 and EL70 it will cost 290 and i had around 400 to spend, so 110 left for material. What about that?
Or do you recommend any other drivers? And btw, i needed XO aswell, right?
The CSS EL70's are 49euro each
The CSS SDX7 are 129euro each
The MA CHR-70's are 49euro each
On CSS website:
The EL70 are 45$ each
The SDX7 are 100$ each
The CHR-70 are 37.50$ each
Much cheaper on other places than that finnish place. The $ is around 7SEK and the € is around 10SEK. Big difference in prices.
So, if i get SDX7 and EL70 it will cost 290 and i had around 400 to spend, so 110 left for material. What about that?
Or do you recommend any other drivers? And btw, i needed XO aswell, right?
The SDX7 would have to be considered an extravagant choice, choosen, as Chris said, for its availability (a box of them sitting under my desk), and for its ability to fit into a really small box). CSS's own Trio 8 is less expensive and gives more bang in the bottom. Silver Flute is another candidate we intend on trying. Our next iteration of this concept will use the Mark Audio #6 woofer... these are expected to be something like $60 per pair (we'll be using a pair/side), There is also a Wavecor that looks very interesting (not easily sourced here, so we haven't pursued it)
Go looking for what you can get... what you want is a midbass that could be used up to at least 1 kHz, and will go low. The size of nbox needed to go low may impact choice, but then maybe you'd be happy with a monster.
dave
Go looking for what you can get... what you want is a midbass that could be used up to at least 1 kHz, and will go low. The size of nbox needed to go low may impact choice, but then maybe you'd be happy with a monster.
dave
Well, the size of the box doesn't really matter. My current speakers are quite big and i don't think they're too big, maybe a little too deep (40cm) but anyways they're ok. I guess this build wont be bigger than that, right?
And yeah, i do want some good punch at the bottom since i wont be using a separate subwoofer.
I think i can spend more than 60$ per pair on the woofers actually, i feel that it's worth spending a little extra so i wont be unhappy with the bass since it's so important for the type of music i listen to.
The last weeks it has almost only been rock and such, but maybe i'll be listening to jazz only for the next weeks. That's how i am
And yeah, i do want some good punch at the bottom since i wont be using a separate subwoofer.
I think i can spend more than 60$ per pair on the woofers actually, i feel that it's worth spending a little extra so i wont be unhappy with the bass since it's so important for the type of music i listen to.
The last weeks it has almost only been rock and such, but maybe i'll be listening to jazz only for the next weeks. That's how i am
Well, the basic costs from US or Cdn retailers might convert to lower prices than from your local distributors, but you also need to consider freight and local import tariffs / taxes etc. Those can often accumulate to a greater figure than the apparent cost savings - but again, fellow Swedish DIYer's could advise re their own experience.
Re specific driver recommendations, that's always risky, but it's probably fair to say that any of the smaller Mark Audio models (Alpair 5 /6, or CHR70 / CSS EL70) would be fine.
Re need for XO - if following our interpretation of the "FAST" concept ( i.e. small "full range" crossed over in the lower mid-bass region, supported by High-passed wide band mid bass), then yes some type of XO will be required. IIRC, our own original implementation picked a frequency of approx 300Hz, which can be rather costly if passive components are used at high levels. Having literally dozens of integrated or powers around makes for an easy choice to hobble together a passive line level XO.
A passive Xover consists of nothing but coils, capacitors and resistors. Once you have the plan, go to their online catalogue and write your wishlist. When on a budget, invest in better quality in the parts in line with the drivers (especially caps) and stint on the parts that lie parallel.
You could be setting the cart before the horse - there are so many possible approaches, none of which are guaranteed as "best", that I'd suggest you first determine the following:
- which type/how many drivers you'll be using and at what frequency the XO
- now many and what amp(s) will you be using