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Old 1st January 2012, 12:38 PM   #1021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
IMD might be the culprit. I love my EL70s. I mean love them a lot. They're my favourite driver I know. BUT, they do have limits that easily show up at higher volumes. Larger Sd has benefits beyond making better bass. The speakers you heard were likely more effecient, so the also require less power to give the same output, therefore likely less power compression at high volumes. So you end up with the dynamics you mention.
Might be... All I found about then was that they were 90+dB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kristleifur View Post
IMO the dynamics has a lot to do with the amplifier.
So you'd say it's a huge difference between my Harman Kardon HK3490 versus the Primare I32?
The primare is a class D amplifier. Let's say I would build something similar myself, how much would it cost to get similar performance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zman01 View Post
Good suggestion Jimbro.

Another option is the Micro Towers - probably goes lower than the Kels - Dave can confirm that.

I put my EL-70s in Half Towers yesterday - bass is impressive - might be a bit more than the dual driver Wessex I have.
I don't really need my EL70 to go lower. I'm already in the process of building a pair of subs to cover about 40-50Hz and down. My Mar-Kel70 goes pretty flat down to about 55Hz where I get a huge peak and then at about 45Hz they fall off rapidly to become dead silent at 35Hz.
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Old 1st January 2012, 02:12 PM   #1022
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rullknufs View Post
So you'd say it's a huge difference between my Harman Kardon HK3490 versus the Primare I32?
The primare is a class D amplifier. Let's say I would build something similar myself, how much would it cost to get similar performance?
Don't know anything about Harman-Kardon amps really so I couldn't give a comparison. I love the sound of the chipset that is used in the Hifimediy amps (based on Tripath TK2050). This one is $25: T1-M TK2050 amplifier. Accepts from 9V to 24V DC supply voltage. Output power between 2 x 8W and 2 x 50W@4ohm|Hifimediy

This one is the one I think is very juicy, $84: Hifimediy T4 2 x 180W@8ohm amplifier w/ MUNDORF caps|Hifimediy ... Not because of the higher power, but because of the beefier components - should sound a bit better.

Then you need a power supply. As I recall, you want a 40W max amp to power EL70, and they're 4 Ohm drivers, so you'd want a 24V supply, about 100W and up. Fanless supply of course. I'd take Mean-Well HRP-100 for a good cheap supply that is simple to get running. I don't know what they cost, but I got a HRPG-300 supply for about 100 EUR, a bigger brother. I think you can find something for $50 probably.

Then connectors and a case ... But for $75 for amp+supply, I really really do think you can get a totally amazing amplifier.
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Old 1st January 2012, 03:12 PM   #1023
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If they're 90+ db, then they require about 1/4 the power to produce loud levels. Think about how that affects the system all around. I don't believe it's the amp, but you're free to explore all possibilities.

If you're listening loudly, to a ported EL70 that unloads below say 45hz and you have heavy 35hz kick drum, the cone will be flapping away madly, while at the same time trying to produce clean midrange. That is IMD. Get your subs running and high pass the EL70s. I bet you'll find the midrange cleans up at high volume a lot. This assumes you were listening to music with content below the tuning, which is likely with the music you listen to.
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Old 1st January 2012, 04:06 PM   #1024
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Thanks for the tip kristleifur.

Tux: I have put an active HP 24dB/octave filter at ~45Hz already.
Btw, active filters have no impact on group delay, right?
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Old 2nd January 2012, 11:20 AM   #1025
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Sorry for bothering you so much, and if it sounds like I want a pair of Transmission Audio M3, but I really liked the sound of them!

I was thinking... Except from much more displacement the M3 also had a ribbon tweeter on a kind of open baffle. Could it be so that it added much of that extra dyanamic pressure I am thinking about? I mean, the snare drums sound rather dull on my speakers when they sounded very realistic on the M3...

Do you think that a pair of EL70/channel will be enough to sound somewhat realistic at somewhat loud volume?
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Old 2nd January 2012, 12:43 PM   #1026
zman01 is offline zman01  Bangladesh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rullknufs View Post
Sorry for bothering you so much, and if it sounds like I want a pair of Transmission Audio M3, but I really liked the sound of them!

I was thinking... Except from much more displacement the M3 also had a ribbon tweeter on a kind of open baffle. Could it be so that it added much of that extra dyanamic pressure I am thinking about? I mean, the snare drums sound rather dull on my speakers when they sounded very realistic on the M3...

Do you think that a pair of EL70/channel will be enough to sound somewhat realistic at somewhat loud volume?
Niklas,

It's a fact that the EL70 will not be able to match the ribbon tweeter on the top end. But probably a dual driver EL70 will give more dynamic SPL vs a single driver setup.

I took a pair of EL-70 from my dual driver Wessex cabinet and put them int the Half Towers. Surprisingly I got slightly deeper and fatter LF (probably combination of lower tuning and less damping), but midrange magic was reduced.

The amp is also something to consider here. A few years back I used a Marantz amp that had a warm sonic signature and took the harshness off metal dome tweeters, but overall sound became muddy. I have not heard your HK amp, but system synergy (source, amp, speakers) needs to be considered too.

One way you can find out is do a dual driver build and put those EL-70 to good use!

But again, the HF extension you will get from an Alp 7 or ribbon tweeter will be more vs the EL-70.
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Old 2nd January 2012, 01:11 PM   #1027
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I actually have some thoughts on spending maybe $2000 or so on a pair of good speakers I can be happy with for a while. Probably some 3-way design to play loud enough...

I had some free time today and I could probably have finished atleast one cabinet for the EL70, but it's -15c and snowstorm outside and I'd have to cut the particle board outdoors

Last edited by Rullknufs; 2nd January 2012 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 2nd January 2012, 01:59 PM   #1028
jimbro is offline jimbro  United States
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Per box - 2 el166s or sdx7s or ? to 300 hz, 2 el70s and then add a ribbon if you wish and I doubt any $2000 speaker would be significantly better especially if they put a crossover in the midrange. But I understand if you're tired of hobbying and just want to start making your ears bleed :-) I've been through that myself with Altec A7s in a small room. Hold on tight.
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Old 2nd January 2012, 02:10 PM   #1029
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Well, the Transmission Audio are actually $6250 and not $2000... But wouldn't it be possible to get similar performance by DIY with a budget of $2000?
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Old 2nd January 2012, 04:40 PM   #1030
jimbro is offline jimbro  United States
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Oh o.k. - I thought you were talking about buying a pre-made speaker for $2k. I would think so, if not better than, but that's not something I have explored since I don't have $2000 for speakers.
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