HI Mark and Scot 
The title was probably chosen WRONG :S
no comparison, this is more like a help to choose the right one...
As I said, I have a 25,30 and 40cm sphere shape at hand, volumes are 8,2L/14L/33L .
The living room size is 4.7x4.5x2.3m high.
The system will be more like a F.A.S.T. so the full ranger will get support from bottom.
I'm only considering the Sigma, because I've found the driver here in Japan for good money (100euro/each). As I said, if I can't save enough within 2 weeks, I wont be buying Sigmas, and will have to choose between cheaper drivers. But its a good deal....will see.
From the Alpair range I'm thinking of the 7 and 10
From TB range I'm thinking of the W4 and W5
From other drivers I'm open to suggestions.
From time to time I like to crank things up. At this time they would be driven from an old amp (yamaha), but I'd like to change to valve....
Danny
Any more info, please ask.
The title was probably chosen WRONG :S
no comparison, this is more like a help to choose the right one...
As I said, I have a 25,30 and 40cm sphere shape at hand, volumes are 8,2L/14L/33L .
The living room size is 4.7x4.5x2.3m high.
The system will be more like a F.A.S.T. so the full ranger will get support from bottom.
I'm only considering the Sigma, because I've found the driver here in Japan for good money (100euro/each). As I said, if I can't save enough within 2 weeks, I wont be buying Sigmas, and will have to choose between cheaper drivers. But its a good deal....will see.
From the Alpair range I'm thinking of the 7 and 10
From TB range I'm thinking of the W4 and W5
From other drivers I'm open to suggestions.
From time to time I like to crank things up. At this time they would be driven from an old amp (yamaha), but I'd like to change to valve....
Danny
Any more info, please ask.
Yes, Bill got it right. If I buy the Sigmas, I could save up to 120Euros.
Sigma pair - 200Euros
Alpair7 pair - 130Euros
Alpair10 pair - 240Euros
TB pair - 100Euros
....and so on
Danny
If you want some philosophy, a bargain is only a bargain if you intended to buy it in the first place, or it fits your particular requirements. Loudspeaker drive units are no different in this sense from washing powder in the local supermarket. If you spot a 2 for 1 offer on biological detergent down the local Sainsbury's (or whereever), it's not much use if a/ you've already got a dozen boxes of detergent at home, and b/ you are allergic to the stuff & can only use non-bio. QED.
So, ask yourself: what are my requirements? You want to put together, as I understand it, a FAST system with the wide-band units in a sphere of some kind. So, a/ you need to establish what will work in the spheres you have available, and b/ which of those that will actually work will best suit your needs. Do you want high efficiency? What amplification will be used? How large a room? What material will be played? What do you value in presentation? And so on.
For example: the FE168ESigmas are a high efficiency driver, with (as far as these things go) a good dynamic response and a nice midband but are not particularly smooth in the HF. Conversely the Alpair 7 is a smaller unit that has a wider BW & better controlled response, but it won't go as loud, nor will it match the dynamic response of the larger Fostex. Bit like comparing a large floorstander to a standmount monitor: they both do what they do well, so ultimately you pays your money, & you takes your choice. Only you know exactly what you're looking for / which, if either, would suit you best.
So, ask yourself: what are my requirements? You want to put together, as I understand it, a FAST system with the wide-band units in a sphere of some kind. So, a/ you need to establish what will work in the spheres you have available, and b/ which of those that will actually work will best suit your needs. Do you want high efficiency? What amplification will be used? How large a room? What material will be played? What do you value in presentation? And so on.
For example: the FE168ESigmas are a high efficiency driver, with (as far as these things go) a good dynamic response and a nice midband but are not particularly smooth in the HF. Conversely the Alpair 7 is a smaller unit that has a wider BW & better controlled response, but it won't go as loud, nor will it match the dynamic response of the larger Fostex. Bit like comparing a large floorstander to a standmount monitor: they both do what they do well, so ultimately you pays your money, & you takes your choice. Only you know exactly what you're looking for / which, if either, would suit you best.
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Scott, thank you very much.
Basically, I think in my head I've decided, that if I can get enough money for the Sigmas, I will go for them. If not, Alpair7 or 10 it will be, the A10 on later date (more expensive).And if I don't like the sigmas, I can sell them again
As for the amp, I'd like to buy or build a valve amp, so power will be low-ish.
I have no experience with FR units whatsoever, so this will be the first.And I'd like to make it good at first try, as there will be no time nor money for next project (buy/build a house).
I done some DIY speakers before, but all 2 and more way.
Danny
Basically, I think in my head I've decided, that if I can get enough money for the Sigmas, I will go for them. If not, Alpair7 or 10 it will be, the A10 on later date (more expensive).And if I don't like the sigmas, I can sell them again
As for the amp, I'd like to buy or build a valve amp, so power will be low-ish.
I have no experience with FR units whatsoever, so this will be the first.And I'd like to make it good at first try, as there will be no time nor money for next project (buy/build a house).
I done some DIY speakers before, but all 2 and more way.
Danny
I guess you are not wanting to anything in the signal path like BSC.
I was researching the excellent little tang band W4-1720 mid bass-( about 75 euros pair); decent SPLs, controlled bass and amazing mids according to reviews. In one review the in-room HF looked very smooth (rolled off nicely) which made me suppose it could be left 'unadulterated' and just have a super tweet added.
Yes Bill, no network in the path. I don't have good experience with x-overs, and to get one made by someone will be very very expensive - troels made me an offer at 1500 euros :O
I only mention the Sigmas, because I read a lot of praise on them. Of course a lot of praise on MA drivers (Mark, by the way, absolutely amazing job you doing there, thumbs up !!! ) and the TB respectively, all in their own price range. But if I can get something from another price range - read higher - then why not?
I do really hope to have enough in 2 weeks
Danny
I only mention the Sigmas, because I read a lot of praise on them. Of course a lot of praise on MA drivers (Mark, by the way, absolutely amazing job you doing there, thumbs up !!! ) and the TB respectively, all in their own price range. But if I can get something from another price range - read higher - then why not?
I do really hope to have enough in 2 weeks
Danny
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Bill, the distributor JUOIGA or something like that is selling them in Netherlands.I work there, so I was looking at this vendor.
However, now that I see that the Jordans are about 120Euro/each from UK (used to wrok there too ) I might add this driver to the count as well.
I'd like to use the Sigmas in one of the two diameters of 30 or 40cm spheres, and if I decide for the MA Alpairs, then 25 or 30cm. I'm not sure about the WAF, as how big the whole speakers would come out.
Anyway, can I hear your thoughts on the Sigmas and Alpairs in closed/BR cabinets of these volumes? I know that Sigmas are not intended for this type of enclosure, but I'm wondering how would they perform....especially midrange and heighs. (no worry about the bass).
Danny
Just that you have a imagination (the driver is Fostex, but can be changed to any).Sphere size vary from 25cm to 40cm
However, now that I see that the Jordans are about 120Euro/each from UK (used to wrok there too
) I might add this driver to the count as well.I'd like to use the Sigmas in one of the two diameters of 30 or 40cm spheres, and if I decide for the MA Alpairs, then 25 or 30cm. I'm not sure about the WAF, as how big the whole speakers would come out.
Anyway, can I hear your thoughts on the Sigmas and Alpairs in closed/BR cabinets of these volumes? I know that Sigmas are not intended for this type of enclosure, but I'm wondering how would they perform....especially midrange and heighs. (no worry about the bass).
Danny
Just that you have a imagination (the driver is Fostex, but can be changed to any).Sphere size vary from 25cm to 40cm
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The midrange & HF are inherently unaffected by the box they are mounted in (diffraction aside); it's simply a matter of the driver's innate response.
Re the Jordans, I have a suspicion that the Wilmslow units could be from what was believed a questionable batch of drivers, which may explain why they are cheaper than elsewhere. Suspicion only, as I say (no proof), just a case of perhaps keeping your eyes open. Worse, I've had very poor experiences in my dealings with Wilmslow too, and sadly, I'm far from alone in that. Caveat Emptor.
Re the Jordans, I have a suspicion that the Wilmslow units could be from what was believed a questionable batch of drivers, which may explain why they are cheaper than elsewhere. Suspicion only, as I say (no proof), just a case of perhaps keeping your eyes open. Worse, I've had very poor experiences in my dealings with Wilmslow too, and sadly, I'm far from alone in that. Caveat Emptor.
Oh, thanks Scott for the info, I didn't know there are different batches of drivers...I mean from different manufactures.
Can you compare the Sigmas in the midrange to some other driver/speaker ? I might have heard some. I did heard the original B&W, and really liked it. Perhaps the bas was too much, or just a bad set up on the room.
Danny
Can you compare the Sigmas in the midrange to some other driver/speaker ? I might have heard some. I did heard the original B&W, and really liked it. Perhaps the bas was too much, or just a bad set up on the room.
Danny
Drive units are made in batches rather than being in constant production, and batches can be made in different factories, & in different countries for that matter. The Jordans used to be made in Europe, current batches are from the far east AFAIK.
Not really. I mean, I could write pages of thoughts comparing say, the FE168ESigma to a B&W standmount, but what would be the point? It wouldn't tell you anything you couldn't work out for yourself in ten seconds flat, i.e. the former are much higher efficiency, less linear, and don't have a crossover slap-bang in the middle of our critical hearing bandwidth. In presentation & priorities, they are vastly different in almost every area, rendering anything other than the broadest of statements (like those I mentioned above) rather moot. Now, if you were asking me to compare between, say, the FE166En and the FE168ESigma, that's where direct comparisons are more useful, because you're comparing between drivers with the same basic design goals.
Not really. I mean, I could write pages of thoughts comparing say, the FE168ESigma to a B&W standmount, but what would be the point? It wouldn't tell you anything you couldn't work out for yourself in ten seconds flat, i.e. the former are much higher efficiency, less linear, and don't have a crossover slap-bang in the middle of our critical hearing bandwidth. In presentation & priorities, they are vastly different in almost every area, rendering anything other than the broadest of statements (like those I mentioned above) rather moot. Now, if you were asking me to compare between, say, the FE166En and the FE168ESigma, that's where direct comparisons are more useful, because you're comparing between drivers with the same basic design goals.
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A curved cabinet will not eliminated baffle step, it will thou make the transition smoother.
dave
Well guys I've bit the bullet and I'm now a proud owner of a pair of 168E Sigmas for the fantastic price of 200Euros
I've heard them in a recommended BLH according to Fostex plan (owner of shop was so kind to demonstrate that their in good shape ), and I must say, the midrange is beautiful....
Danny
I've bit the bullet and I'm now a proud owner of a pair of 168E Sigmas for the fantastic price of 200Euros I've heard them in a recommended BLH according to Fostex plan (owner of shop was so kind to demonstrate that their in good shape ), and I must say, the midrange is beautiful....
Danny
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Topic closed
I think.....
Danny, I have the older style 168S (with the wizzer) and found they always sounded better in larger boxes. The lower midrange would fill out and sound fuller. Since you are going to design something more esoteric let us know the volume of the enclosure you are building and someone can figure out if sealed or ported is the best option for you. I will sim it in WinISD. I remember the debate if this driver needed a tweeter or not... i remember TC said he did not think it did. I always add a tweeter anyway bc i enjoy adding a bit of shimmer. The neat thing about your choice of driver is that several successful designs have been done with it, including a BIB which may be one of the best cabinets for the 168Z... but that's debatable... TC did a Wall of Sound cabinet which is wide and not very deep, Ron did a very cool back horn and the frugal horn site must have a handful of excellent cabinets for this driver. Enjoy the music!
Godzilla
Godzilla
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