Hi guys,
I would appreciate if you could share your experience with these two drivers.
I've not heard any of them, just deciding which one to buy.Price is very similiar. The enclosure will be a sphere, amp not decided yet (probably some Japanese vintage - I'm in japan now, unbelievable shop with used gear
old pioneer amps for under 100 )
Listening levels low to medium, music type classical, smooth jazz, ocassionaly all types from disco to metal, room 4,7mx4,8m, around 2,5m high, wooden floor, some rugs.
Any other info you need, just ask.
Danny
I would appreciate if you could share your experience with these two drivers.
I've not heard any of them, just deciding which one to buy.Price is very similiar. The enclosure will be a sphere, amp not decided yet (probably some Japanese vintage - I'm in japan now, unbelievable shop with used gear
old pioneer amps for under 100 )Listening levels low to medium, music type classical, smooth jazz, ocassionaly all types from disco to metal, room 4,7mx4,8m, around 2,5m high, wooden floor, some rugs.
Any other info you need, just ask.
Danny
The TB is more sensitive, but I think the MA has got a far more honest FRplot. I have heard neither. One is metal cone one is polypropylene. I tend to like a phase plug better than a dustcap, but the MA drivers are supposedly cutting edge technology wise. Um, I guess this is no help at all, heh.
The other chinese manufacturers think Mark Fenlon is crazy to be as anal as he is on the level of consistency and precision he demands in his drivers.
I'm listening to the A12 (just in a temp OB, and only 100 hrs on them) and these are pretty special. The latest dustcap tech, the multi-forming cone technology, and the trick suspension all contribute to something, that, as one would expect, are a step up from his earlier drivers. A7 is built to the same level. New CHR and the CSS EL70 all have as much of this tech as possible for their price point.
dave
W5-1611SA vs MA Alpair7 vs others
Thank you all for input.
Just to fill in the start thread:
I'm considering all these drivers
-CHR70 in 25 or 30cm sphere (8,2-14L) good price/performance ratio
-Alpair7 in 25 or 30cm sphere, very good reviews price ok
-W5-1611SA in same spheres, not much info, price is good
-168E Sigma in 30 or 40cm sphere (14-34L), I'd like to hear your opinions on this, high price/high performance ?????
When I decide on driver, next will be construction issues
Help me decide folks
If you think of any other driver,Im open to suggestions (please, up to 160Euros/pcs top)
________________________
Danny
Thank you all for input.
Just to fill in the start thread:
I'm considering all these drivers
-CHR70 in 25 or 30cm sphere (8,2-14L) good price/performance ratio
-Alpair7 in 25 or 30cm sphere, very good reviews price ok
-W5-1611SA in same spheres, not much info, price is good
-168E Sigma in 30 or 40cm sphere (14-34L), I'd like to hear your opinions on this, high price/high performance ?????
When I decide on driver, next will be construction issues
Help me decide
folksIf you think of any other driver,Im open to suggestions (please, up to 160Euros/pcs top)
________________________
Danny
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Hello Henkjan, well the size is open to suggestions, as I have at hand shapes in 25cm, 30cm and 40cm diameter.the volumes are 8.2L , 14.2L and 33.5L respectively. I'm not concerned about the size, more about the sonics. What might be a good compromise between size, off-axis response, bass extension (pair of woofers will be added later) and of course looks.
Danny
Danny
BIG in Japan
What do you think about the price for this 168E Sigma? its used, about 10 hours on them, very good shape, looks like new, amazing driver. The price is for one peace, around 100Euro....
And some other goodies :
Danny
MODS: please, can you make somehow that the pictures have a preview? Its not working for me
What do you think about the price for this 168E Sigma? its used, about 10 hours on them, very good shape, looks like new, amazing driver. The price is for one peace, around 100Euro....
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
And some other goodies :
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Danny
MODS: please, can you make somehow that the pictures have a preview? Its not working for me
MODS: please, can you make somehow that the pictures have a preview? Its not working for me
Danny,
You need to use image tags to show an image... which i changed for you, but everyone of the image URLs you posted is 404ing (ie not there)
dave
ok then, try again:
Used fostex:
And a shop near my hotel:
So guys, do you think this is a good price fot the Fostex?
Danny
Used fostex:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
And a shop near my hotel:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
So guys, do you think this is a good price fot the Fostex?
Danny
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Bill,
How do you come to that conclusion?
Both these small drivers will need bass support for real slamming bass, but a quick look at the data doesn't have a whole lot between them in terms of bass extension (the TB will need quite a bit bigger box)... in Callanish A7 is getting into the low 40s.
Also keep in mind that TB factory date has typically been suspect, the MA data has been seen to be pretty accurate.
In the end a side-by-side is what it will take to get beyond educated guesses.
dave
How do you come to that conclusion?
Both these small drivers will need bass support for real slamming bass, but a quick look at the data doesn't have a whole lot between them in terms of bass extension (the TB will need quite a bit bigger box)... in Callanish A7 is getting into the low 40s.
Also keep in mind that TB factory date has typically been suspect, the MA data has been seen to be pretty accurate.
In the end a side-by-side is what it will take to get beyond educated guesses.
dave
Hi,
im using the TB W5 since I guess about 1 year now. Im using the driver in this enclosure:
http://oaudio.de/media/products/3aac7ea456ba5e49f69.pdf
Its a german-pdf but you should be able to understand the most relevant points.
The sound is very natural, voices sound very good. Sonic imaging is quite good, but I have heard better speakers regarding sonic imaging (some speakers with the Veravox3- Fullrangedriver). This doesnt mean that the imaging is bad, it is quite good but there exist better speakers regarding this point. The Speakers also like acoustic music a lot, because of its natural sound, but I also use them for electronic music.
The bass for the size of the speaker is very good. 55hz is no problem. But for a really good bass-performance I suggest a subwoofer or better two, or whatever you like. Crossover at about 75hz sounds good, especially if you dont want to hear where the subwoofer is located.
I hope this helped a bit.
greetings,
Chris
im using the TB W5 since I guess about 1 year now. Im using the driver in this enclosure:
http://oaudio.de/media/products/3aac7ea456ba5e49f69.pdf
Its a german-pdf but you should be able to understand the most relevant points.
The sound is very natural, voices sound very good. Sonic imaging is quite good, but I have heard better speakers regarding sonic imaging (some speakers with the Veravox3- Fullrangedriver). This doesnt mean that the imaging is bad, it is quite good but there exist better speakers regarding this point. The Speakers also like acoustic music a lot, because of its natural sound, but I also use them for electronic music.
The bass for the size of the speaker is very good. 55hz is no problem. But for a really good bass-performance I suggest a subwoofer or better two, or whatever you like. Crossover at about 75hz sounds good, especially if you dont want to hear where the subwoofer is located.
I hope this helped a bit.
greetings,
Chris
Thank you all.
So the story is like this, I'm leaving Japan on the 3rd of April, and if I can get enough money saved for the Sigmas,and they still have them, it will be them.I put them in a sealed enclosure around 14L (.................................insert your opinion here.................). And it will be supported by woofers later on for sure.
If my budget can't stretch that far, I have to look elsewhere for a driver.
Your opinions are very much appreciated.
Forgot to mention, the driver goes in an enclosure the shape of B&W style midrange or just a sphere.Not decided on that one yet.
P.S.: I might be able to buy a FF125K for 10Euros a pair/ used. Something for my father to play with
Oh, by the way, in that shop, I heard a Visaton Ti-100 in a BLH, laminated construction, CNC'd. According to FR plot and data, the driver is only good to around 8kHz. Bud funny thing, I didn't miss any treble.... Can someone tell me why is this? The sound was very nice, laid back, much better than the big visaton horn speaker.It was shouty and over the top on treble.Perhaps just a wrong set up.
Also, the visaton is around 90-120Euro in europe, and here in Japan, it's insane 334Euros/each :O !!! Speak about import duty
So the story is like this, I'm leaving Japan on the 3rd of April, and if I can get enough money saved for the Sigmas,and they still have them, it will be them.I put them in a sealed enclosure around 14L (.................................insert your opinion here.................). And it will be supported by woofers later on for sure.
If my budget can't stretch that far, I have to look elsewhere for a driver.
Your opinions are very much appreciated.
Forgot to mention, the driver goes in an enclosure the shape of B&W style midrange or just a sphere.Not decided on that one yet.
P.S.: I might be able to buy a FF125K for 10Euros a pair/ used. Something for my father to play with
Oh, by the way, in that shop, I heard a Visaton Ti-100 in a BLH, laminated construction, CNC'd. According to FR plot and data, the driver is only good to around 8kHz. Bud funny thing, I didn't miss any treble.... Can someone tell me why is this? The sound was very nice, laid back, much better than the big visaton horn speaker.It was shouty and over the top on treble.Perhaps just a wrong set up.
Also, the visaton is around 90-120Euro in europe, and here in Japan, it's insane 334Euros/each :O !!! Speak about import duty
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Well, realistically, most adults can only hear to about 15kHz, and the story only gets worse as you get older. (I'm 19 - I can still hear to 19kHz, but the dropoff after 17k is already easily apparent)
So, assuming you can hear, optimistically, to 16kHz, a speaker reaching to 8kHz is only missing one octave of response. Most musical material is in the 4 octaves 200-3200hz. Sure, there's 2 and a bit octaves of content below that, and 2 and a bit above, but those four octaves (the extended "telephone band") are the crucial ones. Cymbals have a fuzzily defined fundamental (the shimmer) around 7.5-10kHz, but there's other sounds in there too - typically a "gong" around 200hz, and sometimes a distinct "strike" around 4kHz.
Point is that there was probably enough material there on the high end for you to hear the music, and perhaps you personally prefer a "darker" mix (certainly I do - I mix on Sennheiser headphones because they're quite dark - if it sounds good to me on Senn's, it'll tend to be about right for everyone else through the PA).
So, assuming you can hear, optimistically, to 16kHz, a speaker reaching to 8kHz is only missing one octave of response. Most musical material is in the 4 octaves 200-3200hz. Sure, there's 2 and a bit octaves of content below that, and 2 and a bit above, but those four octaves (the extended "telephone band") are the crucial ones. Cymbals have a fuzzily defined fundamental (the shimmer) around 7.5-10kHz, but there's other sounds in there too - typically a "gong" around 200hz, and sometimes a distinct "strike" around 4kHz.
Point is that there was probably enough material there on the high end for you to hear the music, and perhaps you personally prefer a "darker" mix (certainly I do - I mix on Sennheiser headphones because they're quite dark - if it sounds good to me on Senn's, it'll tend to be about right for everyone else through the PA).
TheSeekerr thanks for the explanation I'm 31, so obviously the hearing isn't that good anymore, considering I've been working in manufacturing industry for 10y
I often read about the 168E Sigma that they need a helper tweeter on top... Than again Mr.Pass said that the Sigma is good from around 150Hz to 10kHz, so this might be enough for my ears
And I think your right that I might like more darker mix
Danny
I'm 31, so obviously the hearing isn't that good anymore, considering I've been working in manufacturing industry for 10y I often read about the 168E Sigma that they need a helper tweeter on top... Than again Mr.Pass said that the Sigma is good from around 150Hz to 10kHz, so this might be enough for my ears
And I think your right that I might like more darker mix
Danny
Going by the data the alpair 50 hz spl response is in the low 60s; its a small driver so that what I would expect. The tangband isnt great but is acceptable - I've read some very good reviews of this product, some saying its their best driver yet.
But if Tang Band are generally supplying innaccurate data like you are stating then thats no good
.
Hi Barackuda,
Why are you trying to compare the Alp7 with the 168? The drivers aren't close in physical size. While I can't see any data for the 168's cone Dia, it looks significantly larger than my Alp7. Certainly the coil is larger on the 168.
These driver's are very different. The Fostex concentrates on high efficiency, low Q and limited Xmax, power handling being traded off. The Alps concentrate on wider band width, linearity on larger Xmax, trading off some efficiency.
It maybe better to further think about the type of system to be built, available amplification, room size and a preference for a particular box type like BR, MLTL, Horn etc etc. Going down this rout may give more inside on driver choice.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for encouraging chat on various drivers but to make better use of opinions, there needs to more effort on looking at similar size drivers. Expecting smaller drivers to "compete" with larger counterparts isn't likely to be beneficial.
Cheers
Mark.
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The FE168ESigma? 17.515in^2 cone area (0.0113m^2); roughly a 6 1/2in frame. More than twice the size of the A7. Paper cone, high efficiency, very different design objectives. Couldn't be much further from the A7 & still be a nominal FR driver. They're both fine units indeed within their own design criteria, but like Mark, I can't quite see the point of trying to compare them. 
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