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Old 15th March 2010, 11:03 PM   #51
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Hi Jean,
Don't discount the Nantex plywood! It had a lot to do with the lack of box sound. Do you remember how heavy and hard that crazy plywood was?

I did like the mini-onken with the Focal 10", but you're right, it was not in the same class as the big onken with the 416.
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Old 16th March 2010, 12:40 AM   #52
jf65 is offline jf65  France
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Hi panomaniac,
you're right about the Nantex, very hard for the tools and very heavy, do you think it's still being made?
I went to you site, very good looking. I see that you also were contaminated by the Hiraga virus like many of us in France. I made a 20w hiraga, excellent sound especially with Onken enclosure but no protection, one day one side blew up and it fried one 416, so i took it away. But i still use a 8 w but not "le monstre " which was the version with batteries, only the little monster which is very good also. I never got the luck to hear the Hiraga system in Paris, i regret it. And you may know it: "la revue du son" is dead -end of an era.
Speaking of mini-onken, a friend has just took back the kit 600 (mini onken + 10 C01, mid and tweeter t120 +plaster egg). The bass driver is perfect but the mids and tweeters are rotten. He phoned Focal and they can repair them - after 26 years it's serious business.
Best regards,
Jean
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Old 16th March 2010, 12:53 AM   #53
jf65 is offline jf65  France
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i forgot to ask, what do you think of my opinion that it's useless to try to make Onkens with any driver that one may have? By the way the Onken W has only 2 simple vents with no length. Maybe it woud be more rewarding to think about a really good enclosure. An example here:
http://nicolas.davidenko.perso.sfr.f...128-eclate.jpg
Best regards,
Jean
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Old 16th March 2010, 02:24 AM   #54
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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I don't know, Jean. It's an old debate. Is there something "special" about the Onken/Ultraflex design? Or is it just a bass reflex with really good bracing?
What I can tell you is that any and every Onken style box I've heard, I liked.

Nantex plywood is no more, helas. It was more like iron than wood. Now if I can, I use bamboo plywood. Also very dense, very stiff and very expensive. And pretty.

The 20W class-A was the first amp I built from parts. Wonderful amp, but I over-volted it and blew a channel. My loss was a JBL driver. On the next build I was more careful!
I was lucky enough to hear the Revue du Son system many times. In fact those Altec A5 went on a few jazz gigs with me.

So who knows? Is there magic to those special side ports? Maybe, maybe not. But they can sound very good. And they look so cool.
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Old 10th March 2011, 07:46 AM   #55
minhaj is offline minhaj  Bangladesh
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Nesha, what is it? You finished the cab, sound impression??

Kevin, GM, Pano Others
I wish I start my onken build with this Ahuja Sound Solutions driver I consider n 6.3 and Rg 2.25 ohms my amp is home built 300B SE with Zo about 2 ohms.

Calculated values are as follows:
L' vent -26.797
S vent -496
Vb total -396.074 letres

can you guys pls check my calculation? I want to cross to 950pb in 300hz tractrix at 600hz using a simple crossover.

What should be Rg value for my set-up? Big box is ok with me. Thanks.
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Old 10th March 2011, 10:03 AM   #56
jf65 is offline jf65  France
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minhaj View Post
Nesha, what is it? You finished the cab, sound impression??

Kevin, GM, Pano Others
I wish I start my onken build with this Ahuja Sound Solutions driver I consider n 6.3 and Rg 2.25 ohms my amp is home built 300B SE with Zo about 2 ohms.

Calculated values are as follows:
L' vent -26.797
S vent -496
Vb total -396.074 letres

can you guys pls check my calculation? I want to cross to 950pb in 300hz tractrix at 600hz using a simple crossover.

What should be Rg value for my set-up? Big box is ok with me. Thanks.

I don't know how you find this volume, with n=6,3 i find 222 liters, which seems more acceptable for a 12 inch driver. 400 liters ? way too much.
By the way,if you don't have it yet, my advice is to buy another driver, this one doesn't seem to be very appropriate, especially with a Qts of 0.69. By just loking at the picture i would say that it looks like average cheap PA driver - compare it to an Altec , a JBL or a TAD. Build an Onken enclosure and use a 300b with this kind of driver seems to be overkill, sorry to be blunt

Best regards,
Jean

Last edited by jf65; 10th March 2011 at 10:29 AM.
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Old 10th March 2011, 06:44 PM   #57
nesha is offline nesha  Serbia
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Sorry guys, my idea of Onken has turn into this:
BetsyK ML-TL and TQWT ,
Not finished yet.
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Old 14th March 2011, 09:42 AM   #58
minhaj is offline minhaj  Bangladesh
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Jean you are right about 222ltr if n is 6.3 and Rg is .1 for 300b se the later is not the right value, or am I missing something.

I accept your advice and would not buy this driver for my project.

Petite Onken box matches calculated value if n is 6.9 and Rg is 6.3.
Kevin pls tell us how you reached to your box dimention with your 416 clone.

Regards
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Old 14th March 2011, 12:24 PM   #59
jf65 is offline jf65  France
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minhaj View Post
Jean you are right about 222ltr if n is 6.3 and Rg is .1 for 300b se the later is not the right value, or am I missing something.

I accept your advice and would not buy this driver for my project.

Petite Onken box matches calculated value if n is 6.9 and Rg is 6.3.
Kevin pls tell us how you reached to your box dimention with your 416 clone.

Regards
Hello minhaj,

building an Onken enclosure with the right wood is not a thing that you can do everyday, i think that it's better to do it like it was intended and has worked perfectly for more than 30 years. This particular Onken box and Altec 416 are the couple that work together which has earned itself that legendary reputation, not any driver in any box with the vents on the sides. Koizumi never gave the formula, it was calculated by Jacques Mahul (Focal/JM Lab), for the french magazine l'Audiophile directed by Jean Hiraga, who concluded that it was a bass reflex with n=6.34 by reverse ingeneering. He even made a special driver (Audiom 14 A) with the same parameters to replace the 416 Altec which was stopped. If you use this value of n with any driver it won't work, i wouldn't do that with a JBL 2231 for example.
IMHO it is pointless to take any driver and calculate this Onken box , except for the looks.
Make simply a bass reflex, make it too big so that you can adapt it to your amp by putting things (books, sand,..) to have the right volume, if you make an Onken you will not be able to modify it. But i wouldn't make an enclosure for a special amp, and 300B doesn't see to be the best choice for this kind of design.
By the way Koizumi made the Onken W, for 2 drivers with only two holes as vents, another one looking like the Voice of theatre, so which one is Onken?

Best regards,
jean
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